aeration/pre emergentplus fert/ then hit it with a 21-0-0 or 46-0-0

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by ACA L&L, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,102

    Was talking with another lco here in town, just bouncing some ideas off eachother. At any rate he was telling me that in the spring he likes to do his aeration(core) then apply his pre-emrgent(with fert, its a slow release) then hit it with a shot of quick release urea(41-0-0 or 21-0-0). Just wondering if anyone has or does this when applying there pre emerge+ fert in the spring. His reasonig was that the pre emergent +fert that everyone and I mean everyone including myself has slow release fert in it, which inhibits the lawn from grrening up in a "timely manner". I suggested he have a batch made up of exactly what he wanted(save money and time, and yes our:cool2: dealer has a plant where he mixes fert to your specs) he said he had no place to store 10 pallets of fert which seemed logically to me. But back to the question any comments on this one??
  2. TurfProSTL

    TurfProSTL LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 693

    Most of the PE / fert blends have more than enough N in them for spring.....

    Forget the supplemental applications of nitrogen now. You should have done that in the fall.
  3. Shades of Green LService

    Shades of Green LService LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,011

    Thats a lot of Nitrogen for spring;)
  4. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    I'm sorry. no offense, but this is the typical simple minded approach. It is a bunch of show and no go. I've seen dozens of operations that do (or did)about the same thing. None of them had a program that was worth a hill of beans, and their final results showed it. When someone does this, they are doing 2 tings...actually 4, but two are co-related. First, you are stressing the lawn out by "shocking" it into green at an early part of the season. This can be equated to those who give the lawns a strong dose of N at the beginning of the season for the sake of having a "quick green up". Chemlawn mentality. If you're going to use this cheap all-chem at this time, you are just robbing yourself and the lawn of an excellent opportunity for growth and health later in the sason, because you are missing the crucial window for utilization of potash and root growth which is so crucial later in the season. Grass only grows twice a season...more in the mid spring/early season than in the late part of the season when it grows again.
    Another thing you are doing, besides stressing the grass out cellular-wise, is that you are creating so much overgrowth at a time when the grass is exploding out of the ground, anyway. If it isn't being cut every 3 days, you are doing it no good by that much quick release N going to it. It is senseless. Oh sure, you have green grass that is growing 1 1/2 inches a day, but who cares? What good is that! What good is it when it is so nitrogen stressed that it can hardly be mowed because the grass just lays over limp and lifeless. Now, this is withOUT even saying what this lack of potassium intake and overdose of nitrogen does to it during the hot summer months later on. When you have grass that has roots one inch deep, enjoy how good it looks when it is drought stressed and susceptible to every other kind of damage there is. I would LOVE to compare a stand of my grass to a stand of his anytime - even if it IS warm season to cool season. We'll do the golf ball the end a season, we will mow the grass at 3". Then, we will go out and drop a golf ball on it. If it hits the grass and stays on top like ours, then I'll be convinced. There are several good publications out there (college text) that tell much of the turfgrass physiology. The more you know, the better it gets. Now, I'm not a doctor by any means...nor do I play one on tv. But I AM blessed enough to have been taught and mentored by a gc superintendent who has won PGA awards for his upkeep of the greens and fairways at one the MAJOR P.G.A. tour courses.:)
  5. agm

    agm LawnSite Member
    from NM
    Messages: 178

    So then whats the proper way?
  6. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    Well again, I'm not big into warm seasons, but I DO know that that much N at that time of the season is a no-no. Potassium (and perhaps phos. if needed) is a key for this, and I', sure there is someone down that way who can help us out and elaborate a little further on some of the particulars. Perhaps Ric or someone can chime in here....:)
  7. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,102

    Ive been working in the lawn care indusrty for nearly 10 years now. The previuos company that i worked for was hands down one of the best run companys to date that I have ever had the oppurtunity to be part of. With that said The LCO in question here is not what one would call the smartest of Guys out there!! He was hell bent on getting his lawns green fast and keeping them that way. Here the grass is either kentucky bluegrass, Tall fescue,bermuda or what they call a drought tolerant mix, this is a blend of kentucky, rye, tall fesue and a few others(a total of seven diffrent kinds of seed). He later said he has a problem come mid summer keeping them healthy and green especially since it does'nt rain here its all done with automatic sprinkler systems. I really believe he thinks that his way is cutting edge. Its not in my nature to question someone elses operation I just simply take what they have to say and register that with all the other info one gathers along the way. Just wondered if anyone else was doing this type of application and what the results were. For myself we have had very good luck with our programs thus far, and hopefully we will continue to do so. :clapping:
  8. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    One good thing about it...Atleast his lawns will blend in with Mr. Johnson's next door who buys his fertilizer at Kmart or Hank's Hardware!:laugh:
  9. txgrassguy

    txgrassguy LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,083

    First of all, C4 turf does not grow essentially twice a season.
    Growth occurs when sustained soil temperatures are above 70* depending upon soil structure, density, depth and a whole host of other factors.
    I have directly observed well maintained residential turf sites actively growing when the soil temperature was above 95* sustained.
    Regarding the variety of turfgrasses, both C3 and C4 that you mentioned lawnzilla, it is natural to encounter turf stress and die back as the pathogens that will adversely affect C3 turfgrass at higher temps to some degree inhibit C4 grasses.
    Your fert program with the mixture of release rates may very well work in your area depending upon the soil and irrigation water conditions - however I strongly recommend a good soil test to include saturated conductivity be completed.
    Then base your program on this empirical information.
  10. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,102

    I agree, btw were located in albuquerque, not sure how far that is from you.

    A well balanced program that is specific to that indiviual turfs needs is essential due to the extreme conditions proposed to the turf site at any given time, being temperature, traffic,watering conditions and so forth. The temperature drops signifigantly in the pm as well as an increase during the day. With a semi-arid as well as a subartic climate weather pattern here in NM both cool season grass and warm weather grass both thrive. The cool season grasses require alot more water and tend to green up earlier and stay green longer whereas the warm season grasses here require temperatures to be between 80*-90* to begin to green up and typically go dormat far sooner than the cool season grasses. With so many diffrent types of grass as well as the diffrent types of soil here one would be shorting there customer and themselves by not applying the correct amount of product to ensure a healthy turf throughout the growing season.

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