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All the bids are in.....and for the results>>>>

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by KirbysLawn, Jul 24, 2000.

  1. little green guy

    little green guy LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 955

    I can't read anymore!!!I stopped after the first 10 post and the only other one i read was cutntrims and i agree with everything he said.<p>oh yah does anyone know what the max amount of advil tablits your allowed to take at one time is??thanks
     
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    KirbysLawn

    KirbysLawn Millenium Member
    Messages: 3,485

    PARROT, you are correct and I goofed on the calculations on that part. Sorry, I had some say $1300.00 per year, others $35.00 per mow, and others 145.00 per month. I tried to make an average per month year round. I am correcting and putting what the bids were per month.<p>Richard, I agree with the check coming in year round.<p>Stone, you would not be making $1700.00 for a 5000 sf lawn, you said you charge $22.00-$25.00 for a 8000 sf lawn. I would guess your bid would be $22.00 (or less) x 34, mowing = $748.00. So I guess the correct statement would be Ray makes $1700.00 for this lawn and Stone makes $748.00 while sailing in Florida.<p>Anyway, I will post the correct and very basic numbers soon, I was in a rush and should have spent a little more time making it clearer as Lazer and Parrot pointed out.<p>Thanks<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: KirbysLawn
     
  3. accuratelawn

    accuratelawn LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 921

    I see the advantages to the yearly paying accounts, but what is wrong with receiving your money from March - Nov.<br>By budgeting and investing for funds, you should be able to operate your business without any problems.<br>Our first application comes at the end of February, mowing from End March until mid November and Leaves in November and December.<br>Damm near year round. I just find it easier to bill as you go, add ons easier to charge for.
     
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    KirbysLawn

    KirbysLawn Millenium Member
    Messages: 3,485

    accuratelawn, I don't think there is anything wrong with charging by the cut or whatever if that's what you choose. I prefer not to keep up with who was home, who missed last week, and so on. My main issue is some seem to think you make more by charging per cut and that because others bill monthly we are losing our shirts, not so.<p>Boy, my head is hurting too.
     
  5. paul

    paul Lawnsite Addict
    Messages: 1,625

    It's kind of funny, I read most posts here(I don't do mowing)or maintanice unless in in the the Spec. sheet that I bid on for installs. To me it seems that bids comming from all over North America and Down Under, shows how pricing differs! But even we have price changes depending where we work, If we are doing work in the suburbs pricing is lower than working in the city(Chicago).<br>For example we recently priced and got a job for planting 7 5&quot; trees in downtown Chicago, the total job price is $37K ( this includles the trees, removing the existing soil, new planting soil and tree grates) total out of pocket expense $5K. One year ago we planted 50 trees in a suburb of Chicago 50 3&quot; trees total project $30K, same work but much closer to our yard, total out of pocket expense was $14K. We made good money on that job ( done in three days, Three men, 9 man days).<br>Pricing is going to be different, every job is different, and not one set of prices will work for every job, your cost per man hr is going to be different than my cost, what you do per hr is different than what I do. <p>----------<br>paul<p><p><font size="1">Edited by: paul
     
  6. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,411

    &quot;Now for the monthly v/s per cut issue: $50.00 x 34 mowings=$1700.00 and 34<br> stamps/invoices/envelopes, monthly $141.66 x 12 months =$1700.00 and 12<br> stamps/envelopes/invoices. Now please explain how we are screwing ourselves? &quot;<p>Youre mixing apples and oranges. I charge per cut, and bill monthly-one bill per customer per month, whether I mowed it 1 time or 10. I understood your method to be, take a total of all cuts per season and average it over a 12 month period, even months where no work was performed.<p>&quot;1) I will mow your lawn for $50.00 a visit.&quot; STOP. This is all the info I tell the customer. Let them do the math. No need to project the bills for them.<p>Bill the way you want, Im just trying to show how billing for what you do is better. No arguments about how many cuts were actually performed vs. projected. And no picking up pine cones while the other guys are sipping drinks with Stone :)<p>Bill
     
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    KirbysLawn

    KirbysLawn Millenium Member
    Messages: 3,485

    Bill, I understand you invoice once each month for the service you perform, and I also let my customers do the math, I did that to illustrate. I do not have arguments with my customers about how many times I've mowed. I give them a monthly price for up to 34 mowings and receive 12 checks for that service. Additional services or mowings that were not agreed on are charged extra. Around here most people are more willing to pay (for example) $140.00 per month for 12 months instead of $200-$250 a month for 8 or 9 months. I have no issue with how you bid, my issue was comments on how we are screwing ourselves, haven't seen proof yet and at this point don't really care.<p>Again, I do not care how you bill as long as it works. I choose to visit a lawn I maintain twice a month during off season to make sure it still looks good, it's not part of my agreement I just do it. I live in a climate that has little snow (no work there) and cold enough temps that everything quits growing. If I stop and spend a few minutes out of a month at a property making sure it looks good then people notice, and maybe that's what will separate me from the others, who knows? I have plenty of time off, that's not a problem I'm just trying to figure out what to do with all these pinecones! Let's give this a rest, it's going nowhere. As stated above different area have different needs.<p>Thanks,<p>ray<p>Dale, I didn't say you couldn't post if you didn't bid, I just wish more would have bid (and I did the numbers correct) the first time. I asked for a bid for 34 mowings and a second bid for a years worth of chemical apps, I got several bids such as yours that were all enclusive and it made it difficult to convert. I will try to do better if I do this again, not sure. I do think a market survey is a good idea, just need to refine things a little. :)<p><p><font size="1">Edited by: KirbysLawn
     
  8. jaclawn

    jaclawn LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 490

    Situation #1. Customer calls Kirby in April wanting lawn service. She wants the whole 9 yards, fert, areation, lawn mowing, mulch... Kirby figures out a total for the season for the work, then divides into 12 payments. In the spring and summer, Kirby has higher money outlays for material, labor, equipment, because he is performing more work at that time of year. Kirby peforms all the expensive work, getting paid his monthly fee. What happens if an unscroupolus customer decides that in November, they no longer want you to provide lawn service? Try collecting the remaining payments. What if it is not the customers fault, what if he is forced to move, dies??? You did all that work, and cheated yourself out of that money. Another point, why let the customer make interest off your money? Seems that they are holding the cards, holding on to their money, making interest on it, when YOU could be the one making the interest on it in the bank, market... On one account it may not add up to that much, but add up all those accounts...<p>Situation #2. Prospective customer calls Kirby in October, wanting lawn service. Kirby figures his monthly price, and tells the prospective customer that they will have to pay OCT, NOV, DEC, JAN, FEB, MAR... I am not 100% sure where your season starts and ends, but I would have a hard time believing that a prospective customer that signs on in OCT, would be willing to pay through the winter, when they are not recieving the same amount of service. <p>I do as thelawnguy does, bill for each and every service performed, after it is done. I send out invoices once per month, and therefore don't give the customer much of a chance to bail on me. I just think that your situation gives the customer too much of a chance to screw you. You are letting them hold too many cards. You are investing too much in the season, and giving them the oppertunity to get out before you collect ALL your money, not to mention the fact that you are basically giving them an intrest free loan.<p>A long time business man once told me that if someone ever offers you money, take it. You never know if it will be there later. <p><br>BTW- Don't get me wrong, yearly contracts can be a good thing in certian situations. If you are in a year round work situation, be it in a warm climate, or performing snow or other services, it can be a great way to balance your income, however, if you are only doing minimal work for these people in the off season, you are only cheating yourself. If you can learn to budget your money, you will be further ahead of the game by billing for services as performed. I think that where a lot of people get in trouble is in budgeting. Sure, you may have $10,000 in the checking account, but you can't spend it, you have taxes to pay, suppliers to pay, saving for the off season... I think that a lot of guys see those large account balances, and since it is there, they spend it. They need stricter budgeting.<br>
     
  9. MOW ED

    MOW ED LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,028

    Ray,<br>Put another one up and make it a little more complicated. This is fun on a rainy day, and I really am learning. Got to go, I'm printing my monthly invoices.
     
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    KirbysLawn

    KirbysLawn Millenium Member
    Messages: 3,485

    Ed, more complicated? You've got to be kidding! I know what you mean. :)<p>jaclawn, situation # 1 is possible, but hasn't happened yet. BUT, I do not add aeration, mulch, and other items in the bid they are billed separate at the time of service, just mowing (edging,trimming,blowing) and fert. I would not be doing &quot;all that work&quot; without being paid. Look, at $120.00 a month mowing 4 times = $30.00 a mow, and 5 times =$24.00, that's still at or above what some would bid, what losses?<p>Situation # 2 has not been a problem either. <p>I wish you guys would understand, I get what your saying. The lawn in this bid takes me about 25 minutes from arrival to departure and I bill $120.00 a month for mowing. $120.00 x 12 months = $1440.00 OR $42.35 a mow. If I go and place a bid saying I will mow your lawn for $42.00 a week it will not work around here, especially with services that bid $22.00-$25.00 like TheLawnGuy, Stone, or others. When they would finish the mowing season at those prices they would have between $748-$850 for mowing this lawn 34 times, while I have $1440.00, a difference of between $590-$692 a year. Yes, it takes me 3 months more to get the money but that's also extra money, money some would not have, what is going to pay me an interest rate that high? Stone, that's $230.00 a month to stop by a few minutes a month and &quot;pick up pinecones&quot; and make sure the property I maintain is in good order.<p>Heck, that's what started this whole debate I bid on a lawn LARGER than this one, and other companies were bidding $90.00 a month! Around here most lawn companies bid per month, year-round, it ends up being more per cut over the year, they don't seem to mind and its extra $$ for me.<p>Ray<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: KirbysLawn
     

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