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All Things Rain Bird

Discussion in 'Irrigation' started by Ron Wolfarth, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. 1idejim

    1idejim LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,163

    HTG is a personal friend of mine, I can swear that the time he allows this fine forum is limited by an intense workload. HTG is in a state of perpetual motion when it comes to serving this industry, between customer education and putting up with me, he's swamped.
    Posted via Mobile Device
  2. Mike Leary

    Mike Leary LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 23,103

    When I got certified for Maxi-Com, we spent a lot of time on grounding, including two wire. A big deal.:waving:
  3. Ron Wolfarth

    Ron Wolfarth Sponsor
    Messages: 978

    And an area that is done poorly most often. Headaches to follow.
  4. enorl76

    enorl76 LawnSite Member
    Male, from Orlando, FL
    Messages: 209

    As if its difficult to buy them and tear them apart...

    Your design is protected via copyright and patents, right? Publishing how to interact with your products makes them more valuable, not less...

    Just saying! A much larger company with intellectual property called Microsoft subscribed to this thinking, and have almost completely reversed course...

    People/companies pay for well-designed products and support, and would shun a cheaper product copied from a well-established company known for support... aka Rain Bird... :)
  5. Ron Wolfarth

    Ron Wolfarth Sponsor
    Messages: 978

    I didn't mean to suggest it would be hard, only that there is no sense in just handing it to them.

    Intellectual property right protection only goes so far. Trade secret protection (if you truly treat it like a trade secret) can be much more durable. Think Coca-cola and their 'secret recipe.' If they had patented that, the patent would have expired generations ago and everyone would have it.

    Also, publishing all the technical data on how to use and service a product is different than publishing electrical schematics which may reveal trade secrets on how the device does what it does. I understand the curiosity, but if the information is not needed to be able to use and service the product, we feel it is best to not publish it.

    I am certain Microsoft had great reasons for what they did.

    Rain Bird products are copied and people buy the copies. :confused:
  6. SoCalLandscapeMgmt

    SoCalLandscapeMgmt LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,118

    Why would Rain Bird want their competitors to be able to make products that interact with theirs? That benefits nobody but the competitor. There would be no advantage for Rain Bird to disclose their two wire decoder protocol to the public. I don't think that there is much need or call for open source two wire decoder systems. There are what... maybe 4 or 5 companies in the game? Some of the work well some are crap. Anybody with a basic knowledge of electronics can surmise exactly how a decoder system works.
  7. SoCalLandscapeMgmt

    SoCalLandscapeMgmt LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,118

    never mind the fact that if you spend millions of dollars developing a product there is no advantage to just handing over the details of it's inner workings to everybody who wants it!
  8. 1idejim

    1idejim LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,163

    You've prolly never heard of it because I'm the guy that thunk up drilling out a solenoid and attaching an air fitting for inducing air to find leaks. Yes it does work great. I kinda knew what kind of response I'd get but we are seeing more TDR's in use, as well as shop vacs and a few other ideas that have seen ridicule on this forum.

    The major players should have someone that can think outside the box in their employ (you maybe) that takes a hard glance at the shortcomings of ALL irrigation systems and listen to the end users that feel that there is a need for simple time saving ideas that may be manufactured Inexpensively using existing dies and molds.

    Company priorities and phyllosophy be damned, the little guys are the backbone of the major players market base, let's see one of these players step up.
    Posted via Mobile Device
  9. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 50,267

    This question comes from the revelation that the DV solenoid isn't entirely 2-wire compatible. Just where this yes/no line happens to be would be important to repairmen who might want to install a controller upgrade that includes switching some zones on DV valves from conventional to 2-wire operation.
  10. Ron Wolfarth

    Ron Wolfarth Sponsor
    Messages: 978

    I am sorry I was not clear. The DV Valve is not at all compatible with two-wire systems. Do not ever use them. I was trying to say before that even though it may be found to work from time to time, it is not reliable over time and it most likely will fail. Maybe some have experience that suggests this is not as absolute as I am stating here. But Rain Bird does not recommend DV valve solenoids to be used on a two-wire system ever.

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