Am I correct? If not, your thought appreciated

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by drobin, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. drobin

    drobin LawnSite Member
    Messages: 154

    I have a few lawns that were loaded with broadweeds and very thin in terms of turfgrass, very rocky soil, I started the season with two rounds of crabgrass prvention and blanket sprayed the broadleafs, I got very good results killing the broadleafs but by the middle of july it was loaded with crabgrass. It looked like I didnt even put anything down, Is it possible that because there was so much broadleaf that after it was killed the bare spots were prime for crabgrass growing. I would hesitate to do a crabgrass prevention next year and instead slit seed it in the spring. I would have slit seed it this fall but the lawns are huge and dont have irragation. I told then you are always going to have crabgrass issues until you thicken the turf. Is this wise advice, does it seem like this makes sense ?
  2. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,165

    You'll have better results if you slit seed now. If you seed non-irrigated lawns in the spring, you will most likely not have enough root growth to survive a dry summer. Seed now & the roots will develop during fall & spring before the heat of summer. Cool season turf grasses were developed from northern European grasses and thrive during cool moist conditions, not hot dry ones.
  3. drobin

    drobin LawnSite Member
    Messages: 154

    interesting, that makes sense but I questioning whether I would even get very good germination in fall because they dont have irragation. If it doesnt rain im in trouble right?
  4. turf hokie

    turf hokie LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,753

    It has been dry here lately, but your odds of getting germination are profoundly better in the fall than the spring. Seed now, it is getting a bit colder up your way, but you will still see good germinating weather and we have rain on the horizon.

    Go with your regular program in the spring, pre-emergent and maybe a spot seed. But not a full seeding, you want to get your pre-emergent down otherwise you will fight crabgrass again. Seed again next fall if need be.
  5. drobin

    drobin LawnSite Member
    Messages: 154

    Sept was very dry, I actualy aerated and seeded and starter fert the last 2 days in Aug. so far I got terrible results, yes it is cooler but if it only rains 3 days in Oct do you think the seed will eventually come up, once the snow comes and then spring is it possible fall seed could actually germinate in the spring? sorry for my ignorance im learning but my fall seeding results are poor across the board and I did use quality seed
  6. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Phasthound is right, IMHO...

    This year a lot of pre-m didn't work because of excess moisture washing/leaching the AI through the soil.

    Most seed , sown now, will NOT rot b4 spring bloom in May. If it does not germinate and grow b4 winter, it will likely germinate and grow next spring. You can be adding whatever you think should be added now or in the spring.
    Adding various things to a single lawn is not uncommon - if - you know what you are going for... i.e. - I have an area that does not respond as well as the rest of the lawn... It gets special treatment, until it is right...

    So... the question is... Should I add 'X' here... or ... "Y" there???

    One glove doesn't fit every hand...

    Patience and thoughtful plannig... foresight, means... ???... knowing ... what happens next???

    CHARLES CUE LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,464

    Im with you very poor results from slit seeding fall or spring if it does not get watered. On large yards i recommend doing 1 piece at a time not all the yard people have a tendency to get up set when they spend money and dont see any grass growing. And if its rocky and lots of bare spots and grass doesnt grow there i would put mushroom soil or top soil in those places never had good results with just slit seeding bare spots there a reason nothing growing there and those spots in the yard are always lower than the rest and the blades never touch it to loosen up the dirt droping seed on hard ground dont work very good and yes you need grass for prem to work well
    Charles Cue
  8. drobin

    drobin LawnSite Member
    Messages: 154

    Small Axe- I'm glad to hear that my seed may germinate in the spring if it doesnt in the fall but it sounds like if its a spring germination it likely wont make it through the hot summer months (Phasthound pointed this out) I understand what you are saying about one glove doesnt fit everyone and certain spots need special attention. Can you give me specific examples in terms of what you might do with regards to seeding a large rocky lawn with no irragation, full sun, soil sample was good.

    Charles- I think you are right with regards to the pre m leaching, we had rediculously wet summer in NY. So it sound like you encourage customers to pick a section of lawn to renovate in fall that is reasonable for them to keep irragated with a sprinkler. Yeah, I agree customers want to see results (grass growing) and I can't blame them I do to. It sounds like I may encourage spot seeding and bring top soil in also. Thanks guys!
  9. CleanCutMowers

    CleanCutMowers LawnSite Member
    from SE MO
    Messages: 150

    "Very rocky soil"????

    I am not sure if you are gonna get grass at all that will last. Sounds like you have a lot of clay in the ground. I wouldnt want to run my slit seeder over it either and tear up the blades. First I would see what the soil is like.
  10. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    I have planted in the spring through the summer, the plant needs water.

    1) It will grow, if it has water, and 2) dry up and die if it don't.

    Based on those 2 concepts alone - you strategize. No irrigation, means a lot of hose work. Perhaps, down size the area into parcels. Do One Area Well, rather than do it all with mediocrity. Full sun means tall grass in the summer. Rocky soil with too much drainage, means more frequnt watering, compost, topsoil(clay) topdressing, and mulching in the clippings.

    Whether anyone wants to believe it or not - a no-irrigation lawn is a Low Maintenance lawn. Low maintenance lawns are 1 or 2 N apps per year. Preferably with an organic or other slow release source. Fall for sure, then perhaps in June for the second. Never in spring.
    Too much drainage means it is even more critical to grow roots rather than thatch.

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