am i pushing fert. to much?

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by ant, Oct 10, 2002.

  1. ant

    ant LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,469

    could you look at my program and see if i am
    pushing fert. to-much?
    step 1 pelletized lime app 2/1
    step 2 fert with crag grass control 1/2 rate 3/1
    step 3. fert. with crabgrass control 1/2 rate 4/1
    step 4 fert. with blanketliquid momentum (if
    step 5 organic base fert.6/1
    step 6 summer app. organic base 7/10
    step 7 early fall fert. 9/1
    step 8 winter fert. 11/15
    min= 4.5 lbs. of n whole season
    max= 5.5 lbs of n whole season
    i feel i am pushing it....
    i am in the application business and the only way to
    make money is to applicate.
    all rounds are 30-0-10 2%fe.25%-50% scu depending on
    weather.except the fert. with crabgrass control that
    was 19-3-11 /.86 pend.
    also each round get spot sprayed with momentum if
    grub and insect, fungus control is optional.
    i chose the same fert. product due to "ease of
    application" i use a ride-on most lawn and it i easier
    to use if probuct stays the same.(pattern is a pain to
    thanks for your time
  2. KLMlawn

    KLMlawn LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 443

    Ant, I am not sure that you are pushing, maybe "agressive" would be more the correct term. I usually lime twice a season at half rate (about 10# per K) and charge roughly half the normal app price for it seeing as it is usually done when I am there to apply fert anyway.

    Here is my program outline which should be pretty much the same seeing as we are close in zone 7.

    March 20 - April 5
    20-3-8 (30% SCU) w/Pre-M .86 rate - 4# per K
    Lime (microprill) rate - 10# per K

    May 1 - 15
    20-3-8 (30% SCU) w/Pre-M .86 rate - 2.7# per K

    July 1 - 15
    24-5-11 (40%SCU) w/Merit .2 rate - 3# per K

    Starter either as stand alone or whenever they get aerated and seeded. rate - usually 5#per K

    20-8-8 3%Fe (50%SCU) rate - 5# per K
    Lime (microprill) rate - 10# per K

    N = 4 # per K
    Lime = 20# per K

    I charge for 5 fert apps, 1 Grub and 1 Lime (total) for a regular season. I do not give the customer the option of "gauranteed grub control", I just include it and bill it as a seperate app.
    I do include spot treatment of broadleaf weeds & crabgrass to "season long" customers, but not to new customers after May 10th.
    I do not include fungicide or insect control, those would be seperate app's. as needed and billed accordingly. Although I will usually put a light app of 46-0-0 down if there is a problem with red thread or dollar spot early in the season, at no charge, prior to doing and billing a fungicide.

    The above program costs about $250 for a minimun 3000 sq.ft., not including fung. or insect.

    MATTHEW LawnSite Senior Member
    from NE OHIO
    Messages: 665

    It sounds like you are profiting from all the stops per year, but you cannot have a "blanket" program for all the lawns.

    The program should be adjusted for sun/shade, grass variety and weather conditions.

    As far as lime goes, you should ast least invest in a basic pH tester to see if its needed.

    Good luck.
  4. 8 steps and I am spoon feeding mine in 6.

    I am at aboiut 3# of "N" per a lawn, and I only push what is needed.

    Yes you are pushing them to hard back down on the ferts per an application.
  5. CMerLand

    CMerLand LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 393


    Not trying to be critical here, just offering my professional advice.

    Gonna have to agree with Matthew on this one as far as the total number of apps your making a season as well as the liming. Without a soil test how do you know if the lawn needs lime or how much it needs? Hell when I bought my house 6 years ago test came back that I needed 120lbs per K to get the ph up to the 6.5 range. Yet my neighbors lawn didnt need any additonal lime. Sell them a soil test for $ 25 bucks and the customer sees a report that tells them what their lawn needs and that your a professional, not just pushing product on them.

    As far as your app program I see a few holes in it right from the get go.

    Steps 2 and 3 are redundant and/or too close together. If you want to do a split app of PRE-M (assuming) the whole purpose of this is to extend the timeline the product is working to control the crabgrass. To appy March and April isnt going to extend your control very long if at all. A better time to put down that second application of PRE-M would be with your May app in Step 4.

    Next point is if your going to be on the lawn every 4 weeks why get anything with slow release material? Your back applying more product before the slow release stuff even got a chance to do its releasing. And then as its releasing your banging it with more Urea to really kick it into grow. Im sure your lawns are green but thank GOD I dont have to cut those lawns behind you. (OR DO I, where in south jersey are you?)

    Never used a ride on sprayer or momemtum, just curious how your doing a spot spray of lawns with the rider? I think the label says you can only do 1 broadcast app per year, so you need to watch the total product your putting down on these lawns.

    The rest of the program looks okay as far as time line. Give a little more detail about your summer organics tho, Id like to hear about what your using.

    If you can sell the stops then good for you but if you have to then through in an insecticide app (chinch bug), a fugicide app or two and then some grub control, and then come back and tell them they need to aerate and overseed you might be pushing people over the brink. Particularly when a guy like me shows up selling only 5 apps a year.

    And the old rule of thumb use to be do your fert on the holidays.

    April 1

    Mothers Day

    Fourth of July

    Labor Day


    Your total N of about 4.5 to 5.5 a year is on the nose, but cutting back on the number of visits will free you up to get more clients to fill in those holes in the route.
  6. CMerLand

    I don't think he is doing split apps for the pre-em but for the fert.

    He did post analysis but I got the light spring rate for fert because he doesn't want to hit to much "N", but he is still spanking them with "N"....

    tremor posted you could get a 0-0-7 .1% Dimension or similar and hit it at full rate.

    Step #4 should be #3, loose number 3 or make it a spot spray app.

    These lawns will have plenty of nitro in them to spare.

    I agree on the soil test for the lime. Don't put what is not needed.

    Reevaluate you prices and do less visits.

    8 seems like TGCL has been there. You could do almost the same in 6.
  7. Turfdude

    Turfdude LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,899

    I think LGF stole - er I mean borrowed my 6 step plan. This is usually standard w/ grub & fungus optional.


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