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Discussion in 'Landscape Architecture and Design' started by Kirk, Feb 17, 2003.

  1. Kirk

    Kirk LawnSite Member
    Messages: 28

    I just think this is the best thing to hit landscaping since the Power screed was introduced to concrete floors and will hit the market like vinal siding did.

    Hi Everyone,
    I found a product that Landscapers and natural stone path, patio and driveway installers may (oh heck,,) "will" find useful. It's called Immobest Sandbinder. It's been used in Europe for over 20 years and is now available in North America. I found out about this through my wife who was a landscape engineer in Munich Germany for the past 15 years.
    It's a liquid that you mix with silica sand that offers a bond in the gaps of new and old projects. The nice thing about it is, it is really easy to use. Sabine, my wife, absolutely insisted that we use it, and now I can see why. She installed a mix of slate and granite for our floor and then used the sandbinder mix to grout. She was done in around 1/2 hour after she laid the rock of course (took around 8 hours to lay the rock) and by her-self I might add. The sandbinder mix hardens a rock remaining semi-flexible, preventing the growth of weeds, grass and moss but still allows water to pass through to eliminate standing water. I have never seen a product like it before. Unlike concrete, there is no mess and unlike polymeric sand there is little to no room for error. Sabine was able send out her even "moderately experienced" workers to install, which saved her time and (if you really THINK about it) made her a lot of money.

    How it works, mix the sandbinder with sand for about 4 to 5 minutes, poor in small piles over your floor. Use a hard bristle broom to sweep into your gaps, use a soft bristle broom to sweep off any left over sand mix, let cure for 12 hours for light use and 24 hours for heavy use. That's it. The floor looks awesome with sand between the grout and holds its look for at least 15 years that we know of so far.

    One more good point I think you should know is, Sabine had no callbacks as far as Immobest was concerned in the 15 years of using it.

    Although Sabine's main business was design, planting and pruning, she used Immobest weekly, and in the non-planting season she used Immobest daily. There are many companies in Europe that actually use Sandinder as their primary business installing new projects and re-grouting old project.

    I hope everyone finds this information usefull. I have several other businesses myself and don't have the time to fit installation of Immobest into my already congested schedual. If anyone would like to know more, please feel free to ask and I do my best to answer your questions.

    All the best and happy gardening.
  2. Lanelle

    Lanelle LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,361

    Welcome Kirk! We've used polymeric sand in the past so this is very interesting. Thanks for the great post. Hope there will be lots more from you.
  3. Kirk

    Kirk LawnSite Member
    Messages: 28

    Hi Lanelle,
    Thank you for the kind words.

    Personally, I am actually curious about how polymeric sand works for you. My wife tried it once in Germany and took it out because it didn't look right. The owners weren't very happy with it. I haven't had a chance to work with it myself over here in Canada. It seems if you are using it, it must be at least usable. What benefits and problems do you find there are using Polymeric sand?
  4. AGLA

    AGLA LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,774

    Is this used as a filler for an expansion joint? ... or what?
  5. Kirk

    Kirk LawnSite Member
    Messages: 28

    No, it's used in the spaces between your stone or tile, just like as if you were to grout your bathroom tile but in your landscape instead. It's mainly for grouting slate, natural stone, pavers, brick, and just about anything else that doesn't come to mind at this moment. It's recommended while you lay your patio, path or driveway that you leave a minimum of 3/8" space between your rock to be filled with the sandbinder mix.
    Here's what it looks like, not a very good pic, but should give you an idea

  6. bruces

    bruces LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 648

    Where is this available?

    Company, website, etc.

    Seems interesting.
  7. SCL

    SCL LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 543

    I just received my 2003 list from Probst/Pave Tech and they have a product that sounds quite similar called Sandlock. Mixes with your sand to stabilize the joints. Been around a year or two. I currently use poly sand and love it. Spreads like sand, harden when wetted. You can find sandlock at <a>www.pavetech.com<a/>
  8. Kirk

    Kirk LawnSite Member
    Messages: 28

    Similar, but still seems there may be a problem with accidentally washing out grout lines and the fact that Sandlock is water based which adds up to the problem of braking down over time due to rain. What's with the tamper? Wouldn't slate be destroyed by a tamper? Sandbinder is 95% natural made of linseed oil and is impervious to water. Have you tried Sandlock yet?

    Here is the company that offers it by container and by the pallet but didn't offer to sell it by the bottle, their phone number is 1-866-791-1934. They are the only importer in North America and are looking for retail outlets to stock. I called them when I needed some and they directed me to a place here in Canada called Battlefield. I don't have Battlefields phone number though but I can find out if you’re interested. I passed the number to a few landscape friends around here already and they told me they are going to push their suppliers to get it in.

    Just for laughs I asked how much came in a pallet, they told me 400 liters. More than I needed but I thought the information would be helpful to at least someone. If I were back in Germany I wouldn't hesitate so much. It would take us about a year, being already established, I would have no problem moving that much Immobest.

  9. Lanelle

    Lanelle LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,361

    Polymeric sand is swept into the joints of interlocking pavers. The joints are smaller than you mentioned (about 1/8") and don't show as much. It is used in place of washed concrete sand. The point of this type of joint is to establish the interlock and maintain joint flexibility.
  10. Kirk

    Kirk LawnSite Member
    Messages: 28

    That makes sense for interlock. Interlock blocks do offer a nice uniform look if that is what the customer is looking for. I still like a little more joint to show, with the possibilities of using a combination of different rocks types like we did here with Granite and Slate. The possibilities seem endless. I'm not sure how many people have had a chance to visit Europe. Their talented methods for creating sidewalks and roads using granite are simply artistic (I use the term "simply" quite loosely). We have searched for a tumbled granite supplier here in Canada and had very little luck finding anyone who has it.

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