Another ASV failure

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by QwikDraw, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. bobcat_ron

    bobcat_ron LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,133

    Dump the piece of sh*t, ASV's are cheap right off the line. Buy a real skid steer, any name brand is better. Don't get me wrong, I like the undercarriages, but ASV's machine quality around their undercarriages are just crap, they even use the same engines as Cat, and Cat has had major (and still is having) issues with their engines.
  2. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Messages: 3,791

    I can't say much on whether the machine is trash or not but it seems that a motor is a small replacement compared to a whole machine IF the rest of the machine does an ok job. It also seems to me that a 99 hp machine is overkill running a rotary motor.
    With that said,I like what KSSS posted about warranty.
    I try and follow the Dave Ramsey plan and he always says NO WAY on extended warranties, HOWEVER, I have NOT gone wrong with extended warranties on my machines.
    The machine I purchased in '08, my Bobcat s330, I went with only the regular warranty. Motor and drivetrain have 2 year, 2000 hr. warranty standard.
    I usually do not have that many problems with my Bobcats but this S330 has had a number of leaks that are not covered under warranty and I will probably spend about 2k in repairs (radiator has a leak and there is a small leak on one of the pumps but it takes hours to get to it). I have also replaced my mufflers 2 or 3 times due to vibration issues. The short of it is I will get an extended warranty next time as peace of mind and a hedge on resale.

    Let's face it, being out of debt is great if we were all just pushing dirt or digging footings but running high flow or hydraulic attachments all day is rough on our machines components and the failures seem to be very expensive. I don't see how not buying a warranty saves any money in THIS application and I am learning the hard way myself. As for your track issues, I think you may need to look at the CTL and try and get more hours out of your undercarriage. If you are looking for similar power, check out the Bobcat T320's specs. 37 gpm at 3600 psi and 92 net hp. motor. I grind and mow just fine with my s330 and it only has about 3300 psi at 37 gpm.
  3. J. Peterson Grading

    J. Peterson Grading LawnSite Senior Member
    from IA
    Messages: 989

    I have NEVER had a problem with any of My ASVs.

    POS or not, Never had a problem

    It doesn't matter what brand it is, Bobcat, Case, or what ever. Over time or right off the line some machines have trouble. Its just a fact.

    I know it sucks that he's having a problem, but hes got 1800+ hours on the machine. And its not like it gets ran for 15 minutes then sits for 30, then repeat. His rig gets RAN HARD ALL THE TIME!!!. A problem of some sort is going to happen more sooner than later under those conditions. Its just how it is, its also the shite part of this business.

    Sure, you could go out and buy another machine, or repair this one. It still doesn't change the fact that what ever machine comes into play, its still going to get ran hard on a daily basis Then develop some sort of a problem down the road.

    Then Everybody will get to bash the replacement.

    How fun.

  4. AEL

    AEL LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,724

    CNH warranty doesnt cover final drives. Check out my pos newholland c185 after 700 hours. Dealer said go f yourself basically. And you cant just buy the gears, you have to buy the whole hub assembly which was $6000. Anyone on here with a case or nh track machine better hope theres doesnt go cause i got the LAST ONE for the next 3-4 months. Had to ship it from either italy or england and that took a week and a half. Dealer wouldnt even pay the shipping.


  5. AEL

    AEL LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,724

    Yellowdog- How many hours on the 330? Ive put about 600 trouble free hours on ours. I love the machine!
  6. jefftb

    jefftb LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 563

    There's a lot of statistical science at work with extended warranties. Don't think for one instance that you are going to come out ahead versus the manufacturer in these cases. Does that mean its arbitrarily wrong? Not at all.

    They have all of the data on their side and can craft an extended warranty that provides a positive contribution to their bottom line nearly each and every time they close one. Intensive studies of failure rates over the years provides them the baseline to work the numbers in their favor.

    Notice I typed "nearly each and every time"; that's statistics at work. In nearly every case they will come out ahead of the revenue versus expense curve on extended warranties. They generally know, within reason, each year when and how many warranty claims they will have for part XYZ on each product line. Its called in most cases the 95% confidence level or Z score. We can predict, with a 95% confidence level, that so many of these things will have this problem. Hours of time are spent in corporate settings studying these things.

    This is actuarial science to most. Its the same studies that go into life insurance sales. Actuarial science is the study and prediction of human death rates. You guys don't think they lose money on insurance product sales; do you?

    Different product to study but still statistical science at work.

    Does that mean you should not buy an extended warranty on the machine(s) in discussion? Nope. Statistically you will not win (many of you bought or have life insurance I'm sure but ain't closed on it). They'll get your money and never have an expense against it. But someone in the pool does....that could be you and you have statistics on your side as well. Someone will have a valid, warranty claim that gets paid....its all in the numbers. Here your equipment/replacement acquisition cost is high, the repair cost is high, and the downtime or lost revenue cost is probably high. Not too mention the depreciation cost as well. These are all things that help promote extended warranty coverage purchase.

    Digression ahead: I think extended warranties on machines are probably a decision on a case by case basis but never on electronics. The failure rates on electronics (computers, printers, DVD players, TV's, phones, etc) are horribly in the favor of the provider. Statistics have shown time and time again that the failure of the products in those categories happen either at initial startup or within the first 90 days. Electronics extended warranties are absolute pure profit to the seller. Never mind that the acquisition cost of a replacement item in nearly all of these cases is less than the repair cost. That's the differentiator for electronics.
  7. dozerman21

    dozerman21 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,171

    Yellow, I haven't ever bought the ext. warranty on a vehicle, but on machines I will. I usually keep my machines for at least one U/C rebuild, sometimes two, so I own them longer. If you trade in every 2 years or 2,000 hours, you're probably fine with the standard powertrain warranty.

    The extended warranty allows you to budget a little easier, and like you said, it's peace of mind. Most shop rates around here are $80-$90 across the board, and only the dealers know the "actual" time spent on the repair.:rolleyes: That's just the labor, not to mention what the parts can cost.
  8. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,157

    Well my assumtion was a final drive would be covered. I will check on that as well. Was the rest of the machine still under warranty?
  9. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Messages: 3,791

    i have almost 920. I love my s330 too BUT I had rear hydraulics installed. That has leaked from the beginning and thrown error codes since I got the machine. Those come and go, however. The leaking, well, me and the dealer are used to it and have agreed to live with it for a while. We've got the rear hydraulics down to a "seep" so I'm happy for now.

    The other leak is under the fan shroud on the main pump. Not sure what or how much the leak is. Not pouring out oil, but it gets wet and sticky. Waiting on that one until it gets worse.
    Radiator, well, it's not leaking from the usual suspect (the fins) but rather around the edges. Was like that for months before I figured out it was actually leaking. Should have taken it in while it was under warranty but I was busy all summer. I just slowed down enough to start noticing things.

    The s330 is by far the best machine I have had for repairs and reliability and that's saying something since my other s300 K series and my s300 G series machines were reliable as well.

    still, there are issues with any machine. It's just a shame it costs so much to fix them and it's hard to pass that on to the customers so I end up having an off month after a repair.

    Still gotta service my toolcat, chipper, excavator, and get the S330 in for leak repair. I figure about 3-5k will fix everything! Not too bad considering how many machines I have and a lot of it can wait. Oh, and I wish warranties went by hours instead of calendar months. I can only spend so much time in a machine as a sole owner/operator.
  10. AEL

    AEL LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,724

    Kss-yes it was.

    Yellowdog- what did you have the rear hyd for? Tree spade?

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