Another Bermuda Question

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by UTM-PIKE, Mar 3, 2003.


    UTM-PIKE LawnSite Member
    Messages: 65

    I do maintenence on a bermuda yard with heavy traffic (OK, its my fraternity house!!!), and maybe a little more than heavy traffic. We usually have the best looking yard, and the other rival fraternities like doing donuts on it.

    Anyways, there is "common bermuda" already there, but I was wanting a hybrid "turf type bermuda" instead. Also, there are a ton of weeds right now and was thinking of "releasing" the bermuda of the weeds with roundup ultra, the bermuda is still dormant and hasnt started growing yet and wont be affected if I spray soon. Anyways, I have two questions:
    (1 Over half of the yard are weeds, if I spray now, will that half of the yard that gets killed off be vegetatively propagated by the bermuda via rhizomes and stolons (will the bermuda spread into the killed off area) ?
    (2 Can I seed the hybrid bermuda on the common bermuda and hope to see the hybrid take over??? Is over seeding bermuda effective? I know there are several varieties of bermuda, which is the best for holding up against abuse of thousands of drunk people at our parties?

    Thanks guys,
  2. greenman

    greenman LawnSite Addict
    Messages: 1,405

    When the weeds die off (winter weeds), of course, it will be thin or at least some thin spots. I doubt if there will be any bare spots. Be sure to apply pre-emergent to control summer weeds. However, due to the thin turf, some weeds will still emerge even though a pre-emergent is applied. Now, common Bermuda will outgrow, outspread hybrid Bermuda. My suggestion is to kill the weeds, let it grass green up, aerate big time (due to heavy traffic), then fertilize. By the end of the season, hopefully the Bermuda will fill in. If, by chance, there are some bare spots, Bermuda sod (squares) can always be put in. Just make sure is even with the existing turf. So many times I have seen people lay replacement sod and its right on top of the existing dead turf and/or existing dirt and it uneven, ..higher than the existing turf.
    If you insist on a hybrid Bermuda, a complete kill is probably the thing to do. Thats another chore in itself, trying to kill common Bermuda.
  3. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    I have a little different take on your problem. First most all hybrid I know of must be established by sprigs or sod. 419 is the most widely used sport turf in my area and is consider to be as easy as it get as far as management goes.

    Common is even easier to take care of than 419. Common also can be seeded. As Greenman has said common can be a B***h to get rid of and out grows most hybrids. Therefore I say stay with common. Since this is High traffic turf I would recommend high fertilization practices. 1-0-1 ratios of fertilizer applied at a rate of 8 lbs N per year. Also I would use NH4 nitrogen source in the early spring. Apply this light and often. I would try to stay away from P because it encourges weed seed germination.

    Now I will jump on my NO Pre-M band wagon. Three words "Chemical Root Pruning". Pre-M kills Stolon and Rhizome hair roots. Therefore I would use Post-M. This will means you can still seed you niches.

    One last thought. Bermuda is a C4 and requires a lot of sun. What about trees and shade on the turf?

    UTM-PIKE LawnSite Member
    Messages: 65

    Thanks for the replys,

    Ric, the sun is perfect, there are some areas that dont get as much, but as far as trees, there arent any in the yard, but some on the property line. It has ideal C4 conditions. I didnt know about Pre-M killing rhizomes and stolons, I will make a note to my professor about that. What about overseeding with common bermuda since the rhizomatous and stoloniferous growth is about 1 inch per week and I will have some larger spots to try to establish and would take months to fully repair.

    Also, since I am doing a college research project on pgr's I was thinking about getting a sample of the different ones, and of course if I did, the Pimo Maxx would go on my fraternity lawn! Im really excited about this stuff and cant wait to see results, will probably apply it later if I actually get enough (free I hope) to do about 2,000 square feet for this bermuda.

    Let me get this straight, forget about hybrid bermuda, aerate heavily, apply high N fert, no P, no Pre-M, apply a post emergent in the summer, and possibly Primo (I added that!).

    Overseeding with common bermuda? Applying roundup now while the bermuda is dormant?

    Ric, how can I get a hold of the manufacturers of any of the three turf pgr's? Im sure they would donate a little for college research, wouldnt they?

    Thanks guys
  5. When sprigging vamont bermunda (cold hardy Common) into cool season turf fairways we used ronster to control crab and goose.
  6. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969

    #1 Ask Professor about "chemical root pruning" This issue is still being researched. Therefore He may not agree. Like many things we are not in an exact Science.

    #2 Primo is a plant growth regulator. It slows cell elongation. It is the last thing you want on a grow in.

    #3 Pre-M is slang for Pre-emergant herbicide. I guess I should write a novel about Pre-M and chemical root pruning. However I spend too much time on the net and need to get away from the net. Do a search on "Chemical Root Pruning here at LS and I am sure you will fine that Novel.

    Here is a link about herbicide modes of action. There is a lot to read and understand but maybe You and your professor will find it interesting. You and your Professor might jump on my anti Pre-M band wagon.
  7. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    UTM-PIKE LawnSite Member
    Messages: 65

    I probably wouldnt touch the lawn with any pgr until it is fully established, meaning mid to late summer, and Ric, your link didnt come up, but will try again later. Thanks for the comments, do you not apply Pre Emergent Herbicide at all???

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