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Answers to Super Z Wheel Motor Questions

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by puppypaws, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,148

    The wheel motors that were giving some of you people problems were the White 18 cc CE 420 series motors.

    Hustler is now using the White 18 cc RC 530 T Flange motor.

    The only real difference being the RC 530 is a longer shaft with different angle splines to distribute the pulling load over a longer distance to make it stronger. The CE 420 gave some problems with teeth breaking because of pressure spikes with the 21 cc Hydro Gear pumps and some of the spikes going up towards 6000 lbs., both the CE and RC motors have a 4000 lb. rating for the Super Z application.

    There was a discussion in a thread on this forum that it seemed the new RC series wheel motors on the Super Z's pulled slopes without losing as much power as before with the CE series. There can be a 5% difference in this operation but this was not why the wheel motors were changed. They were changed to the RC series for the added strength and durability because of failures on the Super Z's with the bigger 21 cc Hydro Gear pumps pushing the CE series wheel motors.

    This information came directly from White Drive Products technical department. Below is the web site for White just look at the CE 420 series for the old wheel motors and the RC 530 T Flange series for the new ones.


    OLD MOTOR : http://www.whitehydraulics.com/pdf/service/PI444300.pdf

    NEW MOTOR : http://www.whitehydraulics.com/pdf/service/PI666000.pdf
  2. HenryB

    HenryB LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,844

    As always great post and informative.:clapping:
  3. coolluv

    coolluv LawnSite Platinum Member
    from Atlanta
    Messages: 4,443

    How can you tell which one you have. I have a 2006 Super Z 42". I have seen threads about how they don't pull hills well. But I have no problems with mine. I have pulled some pretty steep hills with no bogging or loss of power.

    Thanks Dave..
  4. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,148

    A 42" deck will not pull the power away from the engine like a 60" or larger deck most people use, this is why you do not notice the rpm drop as much on slopes.

    The RC 530 series went into use in April of 2007, you have the CE 420 series wheel motors.

    This is a number everyone with a Hustler Super Z needs to take note of, the heavier RC 530 series wheel motors went on Super Z's with the serial number starting at 07040104 up, anything below this number had CE series wheel motors.
  5. tacoma200

    tacoma200 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,426

    My Super Z wouldn't pull a hill without loosing power and rpm's with the blades shut off. It was a 27 hp 60". It would hold hills very well, rode and handled great. Just no torque.
  6. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    Thanks for the info.

    Did you have yours replaced Puppy?
  7. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,148

    No, I've had zero problems and run on flat ground.

    I talked with the gentleman at White Hydraulics and asked him what he actually thought the problem was. He said "if I had to guess, I would say if owners were running the mowers themselves 100% of the time these problems more than likely would not be nearly as significant. I think hired employee's intensify problems such as this by treating equipment rougher than the people actually paying for the mowers would. Most of the failures we have seen come from tooth breakage and this can only be caused by no wheel slippage you get from jerking a mower around on concrete or asphalt."

    "The CE series motor is used in other mower applications without these failures. The Hustler Super Z is a little different with the 21 cc Hydro Gear pumps because it is able to put more pressure on the wheel motors. I would not put it past a person to back up on asphalt and slam the steering levers forward putting enough torque on the wheel motor shaft to break a gear."

    I said, "you know that would not happen with any employee and the owner not looking" (being a little facetious).

    He said "what we did was put the RC series in the Super Z application so it would have more torque distribution with the longer shaft and splines". I think basically he was saying we put one in heavy enough to make it idiot proof.

    I would say for durability that is probably the wheel motor that should have been used for the 21 cc pumps all along.

    I have always said, "it makes no difference how good you think your employee's are if they are not paying for a piece of machinery it will not be treated the same as a man would that is paying the bills." There are some people that can tear an anvil up with a rubber hammer.
  8. tacoma200

    tacoma200 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,426

    You are definitely right on the employee that doesn't have to worry about paying for damage. They (most) have a total disregard when it comes to taking care of a piece of equipment. And if you get a good one and he's or she is smart they will most likely start their own lawn care operation. A really good reliable, responsible employee would be priceless (to an extent)
  9. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,148

    I said employee's but it also applies to your kids or anyone that does not have to foot the bill for damages. I know when I was young money was not something I worried about either. I remember having a date one night after I turned 16 and I was driving my father's 1964 Ford with a three speed shift on the column. I was showing that girl what I could do so I took off and held the gas petal to the floor and speed shifted from first to second gear and tore the transmission out, it left me dead on the side of the road.

    You have to pay for your own mistakes before you ever "really" learn a lesson.
  10. MJB

    MJB LawnSite Silver Member
    from Wa
    Messages: 2,869

    Puppypaws while that is certainly true anyone can tear up a machine if they want to abuse it. But it is also an excuse because under extreme circumstances with hills and soft lush turf the wheel motors were just to weak.
    I've been in this business for 16yrs and still run my original mowers part time and still have the same pumps and wheel motors without any failures. But within 100 hrs I told Hustler either the pump or wheel motors were failing. I could feel it on flat ground with very soft lush grass, and on the hills they literally would stop and all you could do was apply very light pressure to sticks and it would literally jerk itself up the hill.. Maybe with hard turf they don't have as much trouble. So the reality is these we're not built for heavy enough and should not have been sold in this region period. People out here water 6 days per week and only shut it off when we are scheduled to mow. So there is a lot more drag against the wheel motors to begin with, but the heavy duty wheel motors make up for it. Hustler is doing the right thing now, thats why I stayed with Hustler the service and the machine is getting better all the time.

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