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Any strictly landscaping/hardscaping companies?

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Mbt23

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am located around Buffalo NY and have been working alongside a family business for 11 years and I am wanting to go on my own for personal reasons. Currently my company cuts lawns (both commercial and residential) and does landscaping. I greatly enjoy doing the landscaping aspect of the business (especially hardscaping), not so much the mowing side of things. I know there are greater profit margins in the landscaping side of things which is very appealing to me. I guess my question is, is it possible to start a company and continue to grow it, without the lawn cutting side of things? I would much rather focus on the installing and tear out process of things as well as the hardscaping side.

Although I don't have to much experience in irrigation systems (have done 2), I would not be apposed to that. Most local guys in the area don't mix irrigation with landscaping, they strictly do irrigation.

What do you guys think?
 
#2 ·
The diverse services that you offer the more equipment you will need. This will increase your start up cost.

There have been posters here that never want to touch a mower. Others that would not let go of their mower. The reason is that it provides diversification. Times go bad people do not do hardscapes. Though people always need mowing.

Then some say they get more hardscape then they can handle every year. Others say the mowing keeps the money flowing when the hardscape work drops off.

No wrong or right way.

I remember a poster though not his screen name. All he does is mowing and only mowing, and that's all he wants to do.
 
#3 ·
I started out strictly maint, then eased into design build, actually still easing LOL, for the very reason vld mentioned start up cost is high not to mention finding truly good help on the design build side is super tough, a lot of guys THINK they can do hardscaping but they basically just want to throw some stuff in there and call it a day, you won't get very far that way you HAVE to be very quality conscious because most all of the people you do work for are high end and will pay but the quality HAS to be there.
 
#4 ·
I work for a company that only does high-end design build. I run the sole maintenance crew which is only highly-detailed bed maintenance for completed projects, if the customers want us to maintain their landscapes for them. Since I don't have enough maintenance work to keep me busy throughout the weeks, my other time is typically spent detailing the tail end of jobs and working on small planting jobs, etc. Our other 4 crews implement the designs. Our grass cutting and fert is subbed out.

It takes a long time to build a company of that caliber. We've been in business more or less about 40 years. We very rarely do small projects anymore, typically our projects range from months to over a year in one case. It's not feasible to expect that for a long time in business.

I'm not a businessman, I can't help you figure out how to build your business. I can only say that if you expand your knowledge, take good care of employees (above and beyond all your competitors), vastly exceed all customer expectations (going above and beyond all set concepts of customer service), and explain why your company is worth double the price to customers who are worth your time, then, if your market will bear it, you'll have a fantastic business model.

Just my two cents.
 
#5 ·
It's all about numbers and cash flow.

Look at it this way:

Ok, a new car dealership not only sells cars but they also do maintenance and sell parts.

So think of installation as selling cars.

Here is a fact: if car dealerships sold ONLY new cars (and trucks) - they would go bankrupt. They rely on the maintenance and parts for cash flow.

The same analogy applies to landscape install and Hardscape.

You NEED cash flow. And for a small landscape / Hardscape co - there are slow periods. Winter. The last two weeks of July and 1st 2 weeks of August. And the week of school starting is slow. As well as December, due to the holidays.

Mowing equals cash flow.

Mowing does not have to be profitable, you can use the install work for the profit. Mowing should at a min make enough to pay the bills. And the install make the profit.

Hardscaping is very competitive. Cut throat rates. And for a small operator tht focuses on quality and craftsmanship - it's really hard to make a living and be competitive.
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#9 ·
whiffyspark said:
DVS what do you do for cash flow? I always assumed you were strictly hardacaping.
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I don't have the final numbers, we still do hardscaping, and will continue to do so for about another 5 years. But for 2013 hardscaping only accounts for less than 12% of my revenue. Where as before it was over 80%.

Good things can and do come from bad. The recession inadvertently got me into a whole other service pertaining to the excavation and demolition industry. In the next 12-36 months I plan to register the other service under its own name for marketing purposes. Cash flow is no longer an issue like it was when we did hardscaping. However, cash flow is ALWAYS an issue for EVERY business, no matter what type of business it is. So even though you do something that is making you money - you always wanna have a plan or a system in place that will keep money flowing, even if its only a little bit of money. You don't wanna cut your legs off at your knees.

When I got into hardscaping I sold the maintenance accts. BIG MISTAKE. but it took me about 5 years to realize it.

When I got into hardscaping I quit plowing snow. BIG MISTAKE. but it took me about 5 years to realize it.

At the end of the recession I did dabble back in mowing residential lawns. And yes.....I had CASH FLOW once again! And it WAS profitable! But.....at that same time I was also building the excavation and demo side of the biz and didn't have the energy or desire needed to sink into the mowing, so I abandoned the mowing.

I'm very proud of our hardscaping work that we have done over the years. We have some great jobs we've done. It's enabled me to buy the place where I live and plan to until the day I die. Hardscaping has also taught me a lot about business, money, and sanity. You need cash flow. And if that's not possible - you need to be in a market where there is no recession and people have expendable income, such as the D.C. Metro region. Everyone needs sanity, and working for rates that were in place in 1997 is not a fun way to operate.

I started plowing snow again last year. But it's only for the community where I live, which is about 3-4 miles of roads, doing it for a hobby and the little bit of money I charge does come in use.
 
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#10 ·
I'm not far from you. I'm in Calvert county. We work mostly in Annapolis area. Sometimes I'll go up to Bethesda, but I try to limit that.

I took a pool out in Bethesda in one of our raininest springs in history. 4 day Jon turned into almost 2 months before we were done. That job almost ate me alive

That good thing is I can get my mhic in the spring and expand some
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#11 ·
whiffyspark said:
I'm not far from you. I'm in Calvert county. We work mostly in Annapolis area. Sometimes I'll go up to Bethesda, but I try to limit that.

I took a pool out in Bethesda in one of our raininest springs in history. 4 day Jon turned into almost 2 months before we were done. That job almost ate me alive

That good thing is I can get my mhic in the spring and expand some
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Yep, see you've figured out that to make money you need to travel out of county. The Annapolis area is a good market. I have a friend that lives near Leonardtown, we come down there a few times a year.
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#13 ·
I am strictly a hardscape company, occasionally I'll throw in some plants/mulch if the homeowner has the materials sitting there and wants me to do the work. But for the most part I do new installs, repair work, maintenance and sealing. I live in a high tourist area, a lot of vacation homes along the small lake front areas with families from out of state with expendable incomes. I also live right in between Syracuse and Rochester, two major metropolitan areas in this region that I bounce back and forth with work.
I haven't had many problems doing only hardscape work, I also know of a hand full of other guys out there just like me doing strictly hardscape construction.
It's what I know, so it's what I stick with.
 
#15 ·
My friend only does landscaping and ponds I bought his lawns 6 years ago he makes more money now with fewer guys and trucks then when he did both
I had 6 cutting crews a few years ago I sold off a bunch I'm down to 2 cutting crews and 2 construction crews
Most of my work doesn't come from my lawn customers but from my advertisements same with my friend he has no lawn accounts
I would not just get rid of all my lawns but I hope to be construction only in a few years
 
#16 ·
I feel you. The maintenance side isn't as much fun or as profitable. But you'd be foolish to give it up. In fact, you should continue to grow the maintenance side of your business. It should be profitable. And if it is, it provides you with a lot more than just money. It provides you with:
  1. A steady, dependable stream of residual income each month.
  2. It helps you with cash flow problems (assuming you've figured out how to get all your customers to pay on time, which isn't that hard).
  3. It helps drive business toward your other, more profitable business like hardscaping and landscaping.
  4. It provides you with a larger pool of laborers, which you can draw from when things get busy on the construction side.

If you don't enjoy the maintenance side of things (and I don't blame you - neither do I) then hire a good, dependable manager to manage that division of your company for you. Then you can focus on building the other side of your business. That's exactly what I've done. I barely work in our maintenance division at all. Between the office manager, the maintenance division manager, and the maint. asst. manager, they handle 99% of everything on that side of the business. So I get to focus on what I enjoy doing more.

Maintenance is what will get you through the hard times. In 2008, when hardscape and landscape jobs almost disappeared because of the recession, it was my 200+ maintenance accounts that I had at the time that kept our company afloat. If I had been landscape/hardscape only we would have had to fold up or at least lay off 70% of our work force. As it was, we were able to stay afloat and keep everyone except 3 employees working that entire year. And what's coming ahead (in terms of financial state in the U.S.) will be way worse than that recession was. I'm not really sure that even maintenance will help is when the coming sh|t hits the fan. But if anything will hold, it will be that. Stay with your maintenance, make money off it, and save, save, save. That's my advice, for what it's worth to you.
 
#18 ·
Ever hear of a lawnsite member named TTHOMASS?? Over the last 3 years he has gotten really heavy into maintenance work.....
 
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#20 ·
Really with the cost of overtime how many guy pay over time after 40 hours or find me guys who only want to work 40 hours all my guys want 60+ a week
Cost of new machines cost of maintenance
Fuel
Labor in general I don't mix construction and maintenance workers
Late payers we all have them
Insurance workers comp etc
Is cutting lawns really worth it
If you just cut grass and aren't fully legal than yeah you can make some money but running fully legal is tough
We turn away lawns and even some construction jobs
With amount is signed work for this year just landed a mice development to scale it will be 2 construction crews and 2awns crews and then I will see what I way to do
Oh I don't have any real contact with my lawn crews main guys know what to do I just don't see or think they make me enough money
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