Attention CPO's in Florida...chinchbugs

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by lawnguy26, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. lawnguy26

    lawnguy26 LawnSite Member
    from Florida
    Messages: 208

    It's been shown in studies ( and now I'm seeing it out in the field.

    Bifenthrin is not killing chinchbugs. Either is a lot of other products. It's making life hard on me and was wondering who else is riding this boat with me. I know I'm not the only one.

    I've got a couple lawns that I've thrown almost every insecticide at them and I cannot control them. I'm doing more and more retreats every month.

    Here's a list of applications that have failed to control chinchbugs over the last several months.

    Talstar 1oz per 1000
    Onyx .15oz per 1000
    Talstar 1oz/LescoWet1 oz per 1000
    Onyx .15/LescoWet 1 oz
    Dylox 3oz/Spreader Sticker 1oz
    Cypermethrin .65oz
    CYpermethrin .65oz/LescoWet 1oz
    Permethrin .8oz
    Permethrin .8oz/LescoWet 1oz
    Talstar 1oz/Merit 3tbsp/LescoWet 1oz
    Onyx .15oz/Merit 3tbsp/LescoWet 1oz

    I'm running out of options and losing a lot of money in the process. Sevin is my next option but I've had terrible results with it in the past so I'm sceptical.
    Who else is having problems? What are you doing about it? What's working for you?
  2. olive123

    olive123 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 500

    havent had any problems...I dont see them too often anyway. Ill bet Lambda-Cyhalothrin will work (I cant remember the trade name)
    It kicks most hard to control problems.
  3. lawnguy26

    lawnguy26 LawnSite Member
    from Florida
    Messages: 208

    Consider yourself lucky. It's a hot topic at a lot of the trade shows. I'm sure it's just a matter of time for other areas of Florida.
  4. ProMo

    ProMo LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,468

    orthene has worked well for me
  5. Mattcurry

    Mattcurry LawnSite Member
    Messages: 67

    Orathene i dont believe is labeled for turf use, but im not 100% sure on this.

    Try your cyphermetherin again next season please, you should find better results..... Maybe bad application rates or tech (not bashing anyone or you).

    I was using it at 30 ounces per 200 gallons and was working great never had any callback or retreats unless the lawn wasnt watered.

    Also i experienced the same problem in my area of FL give this a try and lemme know :)
  6. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    Acephate is labeled for ants in residential turf but not Chinch Bugs. It is however labeled for Chinch bugs on Sod Farms. Go Figure.

    I think many of us remember when Chinch bugs became tolerant of Dursban and we all switched to Talstar. One or two rounds and most guys went back to Dursban because of price. In fact More than one operator was Using Dursban TC and the water darn near cost more than the chemical. But My point here is it is time to rotate insecticides for a few rounds.

    If you are IMHO a real lawn care specialist, then you are applying 5 gallon or more per thousand Sq Ft of finished spray. If that finish spray is 1% insecticidal soap you are killing Chinch bugs. Fact is at 20 gallons of straight water per thousand Sq Ft, you are in fact Drowning them for the most part. Heavy Rains will suppress chinch bugs in the heart of the rainy season. observe this for your self.
  7. ProMo

    ProMo LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,468

    my acephate pro75 lists chinch bugs under turfgrass(residential,commercial)
  8. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    There are about 4 companies that supply Acephate in 75% Active Ingredients. So each may have a different Label as far as chinch bugs go. I checked Valent's label. I am sure Orthene would be more homeowner friendly. Unfortunately Acephate is on the EPA's Hit list, and we will be seeing it go the way of the wind in the near further. One reason I believe it is still around is because it is mostly used of shrubs and trees and not so much on Turf. At 3.25 to 6.5 pounds per acre it is not the most cost effective insecticide for turf. It is however very effective on Ornamentals economically.

    Spot treatment for Fire Ant Control, Acephate is one of the most effective pesticides made. Less than a teaspoon full will wide out a very large colony in a matter of 2 hour if that long. Sprinkle a little on a mound and watch as the workers take it into the colony. I am told they wrap the queen with Acephate. The same smell that we don't like, Ants love. One exception to the ant spot treatment was Lesco's lemon flavored Acephate. Although it didn't smell as bad to us it wasn't effective on Ants for the same reason.
  9. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,476

    Florida is another world compared to controlling Chinch in the Northeast but...

    Dursban used to volatilize & literally gas chinch bugs so the local applicators never needed to give much thought to their delivery of the active. Just sling it down as a high or low volume spray or as a granular; it didn't matter. Even in a thatchy stand, Dursban got it done.

    Synthetic pyrethroids like Bifenthrin, Deltamethrin & Lambda-cyhalothrin (Scimitar) don't volatilize & are too low in solubility to "find" chinch bugs in thatch.

    Indeed when chinch are a problem in a thatchy bluegrass lawn, the prill size of the granules makes a huge difference on efficacy. FMC sells Talstar on sand which does a nice job of working through the thatch. But spread some conventional LCO (sgn 220-240) fertilizer plus Talstar & the chinch bugs just walk away from the prills & eat somewhere else. Regardless of irrigation, the bifenthrin can't travel far enough to eradicate a problem.

    Ric, correct me if I'm wrong but I know a couple FL applicators that combine bifenthrin with Dylox 80SP & wetting agents. Applied at 440 gl/acre smokes chinch bugs. I believe the original goal was to control mole crickets.

    We had a good chinch bug year here 2 years ago & an estate I work with was inundated. Some of the lawns there are very thatchy. I had a local tree man make a high-vol spray with Sevin & we got fast consistent results without wetting agents but of course we don't have St. Augustine up here either.
  10. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    My 5 Gallons per Thousand is half rate of the 440 gallons per acre or 10 gallon per thousand. Yes 10 Gal per K is not an unacceptable rate by any means and Is what I use for Big Ant Problems as well as fleas and ticks. BTW I mix the lower rate of Insecticide and gain control because of the volume. Mole crickets are a real problem here and especially on Golf Courses. once again the super will try many things on Mole crickets and always at a high rate of volume on the finish spray. Acephate is in fact one of the insecticides of preference for mole crickets. Slit application of Bifenthrin is also very effective, but costly method of controlling Mole Crickets. Of course Dylox is used quite a bit also.

    However Top Choice is now the Cure All for Mole Crickets here on Golf Courses. It is applied between May 15th and June 15th in my area. This is the widow of Opportunity to get Mole Cricket in the 1st instar. I do very few Bahia Lawns but I use the same plan on Bahia. However because of our sandy soil I don't get the residual for Ants like Bayer wants us to believe. On clay I am sure Top Choice is a fine product for Ants.

    Back to Insecticidal Soap or just a second. When I grew Hay for 12 years I had free access to Tech Grade Green Soap. After each cutting I applied a less than 1 % solution of Green soap to the Hay field and let the rain water it in. I had no Insect or fungus issues nor did I have any dry spots. I feel a lot can be controlled with a good Soap.

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