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Bacillus Thuringiensis - Bt & Bti

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by Barefoot James, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. Barefoot James

    Barefoot James LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 984

    Does anyone have a source (internet store?) to buy Bti?

    I'm specifically looking to purchase Bti (not Bt).
    Bti the israelensis strain and Bt is a kurstaki strain - the bottom line is Bti should help to "organically" help kill fly larve, mosquitoes and gnats.

    Bt should have an effect on leaf - needle feeding caterpillers. I would like to get both but my pressing need is to get the Bti.


    Does anyone have experience positive or negtive using this stuff? Any other alternative to getting rid of no see ums (gnat family - red ones - can't se um but they are red) We do know they breed in still water but we can't locate their envronment from where they are coming from, so we need to try the Bti or something else that will not kill my micro herds.
  2. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    We use those types in our mix and is part of our #2 Compost Tea microbe line up. The israelensis is what is used in the mosiquito dunks that you see at the hardware store, it effects the larvae of the mosquitos it does not kill the adult, so it works well for standing water. Kurstaki is great for sod worms and such here is a list of who does what to who.

    These are the 2 we use in our product
    (2) strains of B. kurstaki
    (2) strains of B. israelensis

    Kurstaki strain

    Vegetable insects
    Cabbage worm (cabbage looper, imported cabbageworm, diamondback moth, etc.).
    Tomato and tobacco hornworm.

    Field and forage crop insects
    European corn borer (granular formulations have given good control of first generation corn borers).
    Alfalfa caterpillar, alfalfa webworm.

    Fruit crop insects
    Achemon sphinx.
    Tree and shrub insects
    Tent caterpillar.
    Fall webworm.
    Red-humped caterpillar.
    Spiny elm caterpillar.
    Western spruce budworm.
    Pine budworm.
    Pine butterfly.

    Israelensis strains

    Black fly.
    Fungus gnat.
  3. Barefoot James

    Barefoot James LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 984


    ICT brings it!

    Will these strains be in the 123 Hydro Seed or only the 123 CT?
  4. treegal1

    treegal1 LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,911

    put some dunks in the worm bed James, then you will grow more and have it in your tea.

    we have bt in our tea naturally but have never tested it and don't know the exact strains, but gnats and skeeters beware we have got you in our sights. fleas seem to disappear every time we app. tea. good luck with the gnats
  5. Barefoot James

    Barefoot James LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 984

    OK you have my attention please explain dunks. What is a dunk and why would it not hurt the worm and how can worms eating it grow it out from the casting and into the tea? Please educate us all.

    Bill, we will eventually get everthing out of you in terms of what your brews have piece by piece by piece - quit holding out!

    We had to pry the myco counts out of you! Now you tell us about the Bt and Bti - what else you got in that brew? You say it has the kurstaki strain and that this helps keep sod worms in check are you talking about grubs? Will it control grubs? What is a sod worm and are they bad?
  6. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    We included both strains in the hydro seed product as well, we have a standard mix of beneficials that we put in the products, except the 1-2-3 NPP (Natural Plant Protection)

    1-2-3 NPP is a Chitosan product that is used to increase the immune system of turf,it actually increases the cell wall structure of the plant, by increaseing the chitinase production in the plant, we put some chitinase enzyme producing microbes in there as well. These guys attack the exoskeloten of grubs and nematodes, It is being tested right now on 2 golf courses head to head against a nematode pesticide (deadly stuff, scares me), the results so far are kills above 80%, we'll see what the final results are in about a month.
  7. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    skeeter dunks are those donut shaped things you see at the hardware store. You are supposed to put them in standing water. The strain of Bt kills the larvae, it will not harm an adult skeeter tho
  8. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    Do you really want the whole list, its on our label too so its no secret. This is our standard set of microbes, we do adjust different densities in different products so there is no CFU statement with ths list, there is on the label

    Bacillus subtilis
    (2) strains of B. kurstaki
    (2) strains of B. israelensis

    Fungi, Mycorrhizae
    Glomus aggregatum
    Gigaspora margarita
    Paraglomus brasilianum

    Trichoderma harzianum
    Giocladium virens

    Fungi, Ecto Mycorrhizae
    Pisolithus tinctorius
  9. brianlooft

    brianlooft LawnSite Member
    Messages: 42

    Might be a sophomoric question, but with all the beneficial microbes and their abilities to combat pests, why dont you promote this advantage of using ICT on your website.
    Or would that send it into the realm of pesticides and target it for regulation?
  10. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    Brian, You are very perseptive
    It is actually meant as a fertilizer and that is how it is registered in every state. One of the modes, to have a nice stand of turf, is to eliminate pagthogens to turf like fungal disease and typical turf pests. We also have bugzz in there that mine phosphorous, fix nitrogen, gather micronutrients, etc

    EPA registration is mandatory for a product that claims it is a pesticide, although this is in the works the EPA is a very slow moving entity, it can take years somethimes to get approval.

    I know Paul Stamet over at fungi perfecti has waited over 3 years for approval on a natural termite pesticide, its basically a mushroom that gets the termites so high that they forget to take care of themselves and the queen, they are so buzzed they forget to feed themselves and the hive collapses

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