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Discussion in 'Tree Climbing, Pruning, Felling' started by Guest, Oct 6, 2008.
he did apologize and I think they exchanged their opinions and "book reading expertise" quite well
To avoid conjecture and get the correct answer, let's go to the Father of Modern Arboriculture, Alex Shigo:
"The best times to prune most trees are during the late dormant season and immediately after leaves and needles form. If possible, do not prune when leaves are forming of falling. If proper pruning cuts are infected, the pathogens will spread in a small strip of wood below the cut. This is true for Dutch elm disease, oak wilt and fire blight."
You are very fortunate to have been to Dr. Shigo's seminars (Don't know the other gentleman). Unfortunately Dr. Shigo passed away after a fall on his deck a couple of years ago. I spent hundreds of hours over decades attending his seminars. You can buy all his works at a discounted rate as a group from his daughter Judy. (Shigo, Trees and Associates, I believe) Best investment one could ever make. I own every book, pamphlet and video he ever made and they all are signed by him while I spoke with him.
I also feel pruning at leaf drop is a neg because pruning pushes growth and the new growth goes into the winter without enough bark to deal with winter's severe cold temps.
I have a great deal of respect for the education you cite and your experience AL, but Dr. Al Shigo would be rolling over in his grave if one of his students referred to branch collars as having "healing capabilities" or used the term "healing" in relation to tree response to wounding. Healing means to restore tissues to their previous healthy state in the same spatial position. Trees do not do this. Every time a tree is wounded it is infected. The importance of the branch collar is that one does not break into that boundary. People heal, trees compartmentalize!
The initial cells that form at that meristem are known as callus. This is undifferentiated tissue formed by the cambium usually caused by wounding. It has little or no lignen. Later woundwood is formed which is lignified, differentiated tissue (as opposed to callus).
The term "heal" refers to a restoration process where injured and infected cells are replaced or repaired in their same spatial position.. To restore to health; to make good or sound again. Trees cannot restore injured and infected cells to their same spatial position. Animals are regenerating systems. Trees are generating systems. Every wound a tree receives during its life is recorded in the wood because the injured cells are never replaced or restored. If the word heal is to be used for trees then it will be necessary to say "tree healing", and for animals, "animal healing".
The above paragraph is excerpted from Dr. Shigo's "A New Tree Biology Dictionary".
If we are to progress as a "profession" we must "define our terms" as Dr. Shigo used to say often. He has only been gone a couple of years and already "tree paint" has resurfaced and this shows that people do not understand how trees work and also shows that profit is the driving force in most endeavors.
PS. Tree squirrel, it is time to get rid of that cert. guide and get yourself some real books. Some of what you read in there is based on Shigo but there are many texts of his and why not get info from the horse's mouth. There is so much more for you to learn out there. The cert guide is a "beginner's manual".
Sorry to offend you Flying Squirrel. Sounds like you are doing just fine educating yourself and you do yourself a disservice stating you do not express yourself well (spelling or writing). I am happy to be on the forum with people like you. All those credits in 2 years. Keep up the great work.
Someday though if the reading bug strikes you, the works of Alex Shigo are all self researched TRUTHS. He was the Chief Scientist of the US Dept. of Forestry afterall. Also the ISA has the book catalogue I am sure you get and every book on it is a winner. I am currently studying the 2 texts on tree fungus. From this one can know, after identification, whether to not worry or to react to decay because of how effective it is in delignifying and destroying cell structure and ultimately causing failure in my client's trees.
Apologies again, but this is sometimes how we get to know each other.
I suppose this is the quote "you proved me wrong" on?
1. What you refer to as the "branch defence zone" is the branch protection zone.
2. The initial growth after wounding is not woundwood, but rather callus. I explained the difference previously.
3. The cell tissue that grows over the wound is woundwood and, again, I explained the difference earlier.
4. What you refer to as healing is incorrect as commonly accepted and referring to animal healing. I explained the difference, again in an earlier post.
5. These Facts are commonly accepted by the profession of arboriculture and researched and proven by Dr. Alex Shigo, former Chief Scientist of the US Dept of Forestry and declared "The Father of Modern Arboriculture" by our profession at large. Your opinions come from a likely dated (and uncited) university paper and unnamed individuals you have encountered except for the "chief guru" of a lawn company.
Maybe it is time for YOU to get out of the truck and read some contemporary books LAWNGUY.
Gillman, Dirr, Kim Coder, etc. Yes Flying Squirrel, these intellects are bringing us out of the dark ages and getting us some respect.
Shigo used to have a week long seminar I went to in Boone , NC. Trees were injured for research prior to us arriving and then we studied them in their reaction following the CODIT model. There were only 24 students allowed and it was in the woods and we all had our own microscopes. We got plenty of individual attention and got to know "Al" quite well and went out to dinner with him, etc. We went over his "New Tree Biology" based on questions or thoughts sent to us prior to the seminar. Food was great as was comraderie, landscape, and subject matter. Hope someone takes up the torch soon. I always needed a Shigo fix periodically. Forum helps a lot! Thanks Treeservicessite.
Apology accepted and I apologize for over reacting. We're pals again.