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Bid on a shopping center. Need Help!

20K views 94 replies 23 participants last post by  rbljack 
#1 ·
So this year will be the first year i will be going for commercial properties. I haven't really advertised and today i got a call from a guy wanting me to cut a shopping center. Way sooner than i thought i would get any big jobs. Now the issue i have is pricing it. And i only have a 36" mower.......And he said there was about 2 acres of grass. Well i drove by tonight, and my guess is it is closer to 2.5 acres. He said to give him a call back on a bid. But the problem i have is that i am unsure if my 36" can handle it. I would have a friend using the handhelds while i cut. If i can do it in no longer than 2 hours should i go for it? I really want this job but i don't want to under bid. He said that it would be cut every 10 days, 3 times a month. I'm thinking somewhere around the $100 mark for each cut? Too low? I have attached a Google map view of the property to give you an idea. Also all those little islands in the parking lot are mulched and don't have grass or any trimming to do.

Thanks for the help!!

Map Land lot Urban design Screenshot Font
 
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#3 ·
What about the parking lot? Picking up trash, etc... That's a lot of blowing, do they have a parking lot sweeper service?

If I only had a 36" mower with no plans to go bigger, I would pass. If you do decide to go bigger, will you have regrets if they decide to drop you next season? Their isn't much love when you get into commercial jobs. Not much in residential either but it's a lot less painful when you lose one and they are much easier to replace.
 
#4 ·
What about the parking lot? Picking up trash, etc... That's a lot of blowing, do they have a parking lot sweeper service?

If I only had a 36" mower with no plans to go bigger, I would pass. If you do decide to go bigger, will you have regrets if they decide to drop you next season? Their isn't much love when you get into commercial jobs. Not much in residential either but it's a lot less painful when you lose one and they are much easier to replace.
Well i actually plan to go bigger hopefully by next spring, with maybe a 52" mower. He didn't specify about the parking lot or any of that. Mainly he wanted to know how much it would cost to cut the grass, trim..ect.
 
#5 ·
What about the parking lot? Picking up trash, etc... That's a lot of blowing, do they have a parking lot sweeper service?

If I only had a 36" mower with no plans to go bigger, I would pass. If you do decide to go bigger, will you have regrets if they decide to drop you next season? Their isn't much love when you get into commercial jobs. Not much in residential either but it's a lot less painful when you lose one and they are much easier to replace.
You don't have to blow the whole parking lot, just the edges of materials resulting in the grass cutting service…. that's industry standard.

2.5 acres with a 36" on full speed (7mph), 80% efficiency is 74 minutes.

There isn't a lot of trim… be wary of cars… are there curb stops to keep the cars and trucks from overhanging the grass, or can they back up all the way to the curb with their tires and be all up in the grass?

In the worse case scenario I usually say 'tough' vehicles are parked in the way, you get what you get.. I trim as much as possible without breaking a 3 mph pace.

IF you have curb stops and no overhang, easy.

Call it 30 minutes of trim.

you'll have 10 minutes of transport between areas.

10 extra minutes to move truck around

10 minutes of travel.

20 minutes of blow.

So…144 minutes.

That's 2.4 man hours

At $100 per cut, that's a little tight at $41.66/hr
buuuut with a 36" that's pretty fair actually.

if you were to cut this next year with a 52"
your cut time drops to 45 minutes

Brining your over all time to 115 minutes
Brining your average $ per man hour to $52/hr

with a 60" ZTR your mowing time is now 31 minutes
and a total of 101 minutes
Bang…and average of 62.50 per hour…with the same $100 price.

so…to be fair… your $100 price guestimate is RIGHT on the money….

you can't expect to make $60/hr with a 36" mower.

42 is slim net.
52 is better
but 62.50 is pretty sweet.

If it were me, I'd put my foot in the door.
If you get it an you only last one season in something this size…you've lost nothing..
IF you never take the step, you'll never expand.

Plus my times are only averages…can you do it faster with those different mowers including your 36"
If your good?
Yes.

Faster means better $/hr.

I say bid $100 and go for it.
 
#6 ·
2.5 acres with a 36" on full speed (7mph), 80% efficiency is 74 minutes.
Will the operator be running behind the mower??? 7mph is certainly not walking speed.

My advice is take a pass on it until next year. Just let the guy know you'd love to bid it next go around. Get the experience first. I have passed on 2 commercial properties this year because I am not ready for them. Better safe than sorry...underbidding something like this could really screw you up.
 
#9 ·
Whenever some newbie suggest that simply moving to a bigger mower equates to more money per hour I laugh. Bigger mow=bigger trailer=insurance on mower=higher maintenance=stuck in the mud=fuel eating machine=where you gonna store the thing=NO YOU CANNOT USE THE SAME MATH!! DUH! It's like the blind leading the blind.

$100 for that are you kidding?? Try $300.

You could absolutely use a 36" on that. It would get old fast. Is there a difference between a 36" on an acre or a 60" on 2?? They both get it done. Why couldn't you?? Just be certain to price it so when you wear out your WB you have some money to get a bigger unit and cover all the additional expenses. How else do guys like me afford to run 60" mowers all day?
 
#10 ·
Whenever some newbie suggest that simply moving to a bigger mower equates to more money per hour I laugh. Bigger mow=bigger trailer=insurance on mower=higher maintenance=stuck in the mud=fuel eating machine=where you gonna store the thing=NO YOU CANNOT USE THE SAME MATH!! DUH! It's like the blind leading the blind.

$100 for that are you kidding?? Try $300.

You could absolutely use a 36" on that. It would get old fast. Is there a difference between a 36" on an acre or a 60" on 2?? They both get it done. Why couldn't you?? Just be certain to price it so when you wear out your WB you have some money to get a bigger unit and cover all the additional expenses. How else do guys like me afford to run 60" mowers all day?
What are you talking about?
A bigger mower equates to marginal increase in expenses. In fact, with say a 72 you will not only cut it in less than half the time, under 1h thus increasing your hourly rate to 100/hr in this case, but you are also putting half the hours on the mower....thus reducing all cost.

The easy way to look at it is mowing a residential 1/2 lot. You might be able to get 2 done in an hour with a 36.....you could easily get 4 done with a 72......doubling your hourly rate
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#12 ·
A lot of good points made here.

The ten day cycle is not good in spring but perfect through the summer. I do 10 day cycles through the summer for most of my residential properties. My customers and I are ok with mowing on the weekends.

In this area, I find that most lawns require 20 to 24 cuts a year using a variable cycle of once a week in spring and every ten days through the summer.

Mwalz, if your friend and your 36" are reliable then pursue this. If you have doubts about any of this, then pass. Residential properties are plentiful and it is not as easy to get in over your head.

Myself, I would probably pass on this one, unless the location and price made it too tempting. If i did consider it, I would bid $125. to 150. depending on factors like trimming, cars overhanging the grass, trash, and the other things others wisely noted.
 
#13 ·
Will the operator be running behind the mower??? 7mph is certainly not walking speed.

My advice is take a pass on it until next year. Just let the guy know you'd love to bid it next go around. Get the experience first. I have passed on 2 commercial properties this year because I am not ready for them. Better safe than sorry...underbidding something like this could really screw you up.
ever heard of a sulky?
 
#14 ·
I'd bid around the same @ 225. Don't forget about trash on the turf that can eat time picking up......
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dont pick up the trash, kick it out of the way.

Trash isn't mentioned, it isn't bid, you're not the trash man.

Malls and shopping plazas frequently have a man for that.

If it's not specifically called out in the bid then you don't bid it because you're competition won't be.

If it becomes a big obstacle you simply tell the manager/owner...This trash needs to be picked up regularly, unless you want to pay me to do it.

Just like a residential, do you factor in hoses, hammocks, dog toys and frisbees when you give your price...or do you talk to the owner about all the ridiculous lawn obstacles?

Some resi's wont have a single thing in the lawn, others will be covered.

some commercials wont have trash to pick up, the wind blows it some where else.
 
#15 ·
dont pick up the trash, kick it out of the way.

Trash isn't mentioned, it isn't bid, you're not the trash man.

Malls and shopping plazas frequently have a man for that.

If it's not specifically called out in the bid then you don't bid it because you're competition won't be.

If it becomes a big obstacle you simply tell the manager/owner...This trash needs to be picked up regularly, unless you want to pay me to do it.

Just like a residential, do you factor in hoses, hammocks, dog toys and frisbees when you give your price...or do you talk to the owner about all the ridiculous lawn obstacles?

Some resi's wont have a single thing in the lawn, others will be covered.

some commercials wont have trash to pick up, the wind blows it some where else.
I do pick up the trash (it takes little longer than kicking it), but I often put it in the bid, and it is in my service description, and often on the invoice. Trash is a fact of life and some areas are worse than others.

I had one helper who would not pick up trash, even after I mentioned it several times. One day I saw him drive the mower around the trash and give it a dirty look. Later, I said to him, that at least he gave it a dirty look, and after that he started picking it up.
 
#16 ·
Picking up trash is a pain. I'll do it as residentials, because it's almost always litter. If it's their own trash (cuz they're slobs) it's their problem.

Commercials it's either in the price (and make note of it, they have the option to not include it, therefore its never your problem ever) or someone else's job.
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#17 ·
I really want this account, and it will help me with my commercial properties. I am confident in both handhelds and the mower to last. And the fact i have a friend will make it go faster. I'm considering getting another 36" real cheap and we can cut all properties faster. But then i have to pay him. Then again we could cut lawns faster and get more done quicker. Thanks for all the help guys. I talked to a local guy who is a friend, and he said go for it, but do it the first time, and then see if it is cost effective in the amount of time that it takes to do it. Which sounds good. I want to try to get at least 5 commercial properties this year as well. And i also have a sulky to ride on.
 
#18 ·
I really want this account, and it will help me with my commercial properties. I am confident in both handhelds and the mower to last. And the fact i have a friend will make it go faster. I'm considering getting another 36" real cheap and we can cut all properties faster. But then i have to pay him. Then again we could cut lawns faster and get more done quicker. Thanks for all the help guys. I talked to a local guy who is a friend, and he said go for it, but do it the first time, and then see if it is cost effective in the amount of time that it takes to do it. Which sounds good. I want to try to get at least 5 commercial properties this year as well. And i also have a sulky to ride on.
I wouldn't get another 36, seriously look into a used larger turf tracer. If you're doing commercial and large residentials, get a 60" and fly through them. The increase in efficiency over the 36 will pay for itself in less than a week.
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#23 ·
I would go $150 but that's a pretty blind bid just from that aerial view.
yea true, we are supposed to get ice the next few days so idk if i will be able to go and get pics. I would like to call the guy back asap if i can, I'm thinking $175 - $200 would be decent prices. It's about 15 miles away from where I live, so it's not that far. I really want this job, would $175 b a good price? Or should i just bid a nice even $200.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Id suggest bidding around the 200 mark because you may regret it after a while for the 100. Better to bid a bit higher and NOT get it, than to realize you bid too low later on.

I would also think you would want the sulky for that job to get your groundspeed up enough to make some $.

Here is two different ways I might go about bidding that job.
1. Either bid high, and go with the 200 per cut number.

OR, better yet...

2. Tell them you would like the opportunity to cut it once for 100.00 as a discount for calling your company, and that will allow you to provide them a better and more accurate bid. I would also suggest mentioning that your initial thought is to provide a bid of 200. Now they may see it as your giving the first mowing for half price, AND you can watch their nonverbal when you mention that figure of 200 bucks if you doing this face to face. Inform them that it also gives them the opportunity to see the quality of your work, and how it will look when completed. They will probably say go for it, and then you can better determine what you need to bid for the job so that you don't underbid. Then if it takes WAY longer than you expected, and you bid higher than originally anticipated, they got a deal for one mowing, and you figured out where you need to be to make money. All thats left to do after that is wait for them to say yes...or no.

Just a thought....
 
#25 ·
Tried to edit my post, but didn't get it in time. After reviewing those pics again...I think I would go 125 as the "intro cut" and suggest 250 to them for the initial thought for the bid. I think that would bring you close to where you would want to be. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
 
#26 ·
yea true, we are supposed to get ice the next few days so idk if i will be able to go and get pics. I would like to call the guy back asap if i can, I'm thinking $175 - $200 would be decent prices. It's about 15 miles away from where I live, so it's not that far. I really want this job, would $175 b a good price? Or should i just bid a nice even $200.
No way Id do that job for less than $200 but if you really want it nothing wrong with $175-$200. As much as you want that job if there are guys where you are that are like the ones saying $100 here, you won't get it and youre better off. $100 is crazy unless you're extremely desperate for work. Good luck with it, though. I hope you get it at your price.
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