Big bucks or not?

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by Dawsy, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. Dawsy

    Dawsy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 9

    I was just wondering what the average income owners are bringing in annually? 5yrs ago I worked for a small company- 2 owners, 3 crew members including myself. I was told that the company had $1.2 million in sales the year before.......all hardscape jobs 8-9 straight. The owners were flippin loaded.......on the other hand, I hear of a lot of guys dont make much, is this normal?
  2. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,284

    Dawsy, were you told about their net profit? That's the one on which you want to focus.

    Also, 1.2 million with five guys, in this business, it's highly unlikely. Actually, unless they were selling some damn expensive pavers, fountains, grills, etc. I'd say it's not possible.
  3. Rex Mann

    Rex Mann LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 621

    1.2 M with 5 guys can be done. We are talking gross revenue AKA sales. In a market where installers work year-round it can be done. I know several "small" companies doing those numbers with 4-6 employees, and several just under the 1M mark.

    Let's say you work an average of 50 hours a week and 50 weeks a year with 5 employees. That is 12,500 man hours to sell. Take the 1.2M and divide by the man hours, comes out to $96.00 per man hour, which does not even include any materials. If materials are 1/3 of each job then we'll divide 800K by the hours, which gives us a labor hour rate of $64.00. Or using half, 600K for materials then the labor rate is reduced to $48.00 per hour.

    Lots of variables between companies effect how much the owner or company makes after all is said-and-done. Overhead, which I think is the biggest variable, wages paid, benefits paid to employees and structure of the company. A company back East could gross 1.2M and run an overhead of 30%, $360,000.00. I could do just 1M with an overhead of 7%, $70,000.00.
    Which company and/or owners do you think made more money?



  4. cedarcroft

    cedarcroft LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 442

    I agree with Rex, 1.2 mill could be done, but not in Canada. if you are not working year round, that number is impossible with only 5 guys.
  5. Dawsy

    Dawsy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 9

    $1.2 mill was gross, but Im not exactly sure if that number is correct. The lead hand guy told me it was something like that. It could have been just a million but whatever..........Also, the guy said the company had roughly 600k in expenses. So you figure, 1 mill - owner takes home 200 G's CAD in 9 months, thats not to shabby eh.

    Basically it was 4 guys on the site, the other owner was usually running around doing sales (at least thats what he said) and we were working approximately 55hrs a week all season. And ya we hussled, these guys pushed us hard, everything was fast paced....toughest job Ive ever had. It was all cash too, $120 a day for me and the other helper, $240 CASH a day for the lead hand.

    All the jobs were hardscape jobs. LOTS of interlock driveways, walkways, patios, mortared natural stone, retaining walls and the odd sod job with some trees.

    I would say on average, the jobs were 1 week long most of the season, a few 2-3 day ones and a few biggies 4-5 weeks.

    Anyways, I just thought it was amazing that there was that much money to be made......I had no clue.
  6. Dawsy

    Dawsy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 9

    Also, one more thing.....The business seemed to be all cash, and the equipment was leased - Bobcat & 2 F-450's, but all hand tools were purchased...........not sure if this makes a difference or not
  7. cgland

    cgland LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,929

    Just because the residuals were 400K does not mean each owner takes home 200K. Some of that needs to go back into the business for maint, new equip., misc. I would say the each owner probably took home around 100K or so. If your info is correct.


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