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building sealing trailer/unit

Discussion in 'Seal Coating Forum' started by green1advantage, Jun 29, 2007.

  1. green1advantage

    green1advantage LawnSite Member
    from ny
    Messages: 24

    any one have any ideas on how to build a sprayer tank system .iv found that i think i need one to work by myself and still do parking/ drives to keep my labor down .when winter hits ill have all the cold months to build .as i understand its some type of water pump and small gas motor .
  2. EWS

    EWS LawnSite Member
    Messages: 203

    hello chris, you will need a tank to start with and it must have some paddles inside to mix the sealer water and sand.. than you need a pump either a 1 1/2 or 2 inch wilden pump will work fine, a air compressor and a motor, 6 hp motor will work fine. you will need a spray wand and 100 ft of 3/4 inch hose. stay away from the water pumps becuase they really dont work well and you will spend alot of time down. I have used them before and there not worth it. they are not made to pump sealer and the sand tears them up.. good luck...
  3. green1advantage

    green1advantage LawnSite Member
    from ny
    Messages: 24

    hey thanks a bunch .the tank im sure i can come up with as well as compressor ill see what i can find and re post for the other stuff
  4. NealMfg/SalesMgr

    NealMfg/SalesMgr LawnSite Member
    Messages: 10


    Building your own tank I think would be a mistake. It seems cheaper for the short term but its going to cost you more in the long run not knowing how to put this tank together and not finding out till you are on a job that has a dead line. The Wilden is a water pump as well and will have pressure problems with some of the thicker materials you will run into in the future and now.

    Your best option is to go with a piston pump made specificly for sealer. If you are serious about this business you must have the right equipment to succeed. If you are going half way you will run into road blocks of unimaginable difficulty you will be better off to get a job with a sealcoating company learn the business save yr money or build yr credit and do it right and buy a true sealcoating machine. Good Luck
  5. NPCA

    NPCA LawnSite Member
    Messages: 34

    We totally agree building your own would usually be a mistake unless you have excellent welding/engineering/fabrication skills.
    There are many "harder than they look" parts like agitator design, manways, seals, welding inside the tank, finding a "capped end" tank with heavy enough metal to start, etc.

    However while we have no animosity to Neal, Anders, Desco, Nealco, or any other piston pump maker; diaphragm pumps have been doing fine for many-many years. Whether hydraulic or air.
    Wilden is the top maker (inventor) of air driven pumps (in general, they don't make specifically for sealing).

    These units with a properly sized air supply/pump (where most home-builders miss) will easily apply over 8 lbs, of sand per gallon in sealer which is the highest current specification anywhere. We will point out if, for some reason, you want to go above the 8~10 lb. range it's best to stay with piston pumps from one of the above. It is well known in the "old days" when the FAA specified 15 lbs. only Neal or a hydraulic diaphragm (rare) could handle that load & still spray. Piston pumps have their advantages and disadvantages just like air. People who use either one generally wouldn't switch.

    However air units (all brands compared) outsell piston units well over 2 to 1. In general they are lower cost in purchasing & maintenance, (however as posted elsewhere Neal -for years the largest piston maker, was off the market for 5+ years as part of a bigger corporate non-compete arrangement, now that they are back they may be able to regain their "leading" status/market share, but it will take some time, a 5 year absence is a long time in this business)
  6. NealMfg/SalesMgr

    NealMfg/SalesMgr LawnSite Member
    Messages: 10

    I tend to disagree with you on the power of a diaphragm. The M4 now the PX 400 by Wilden is only rated at 30 GPM rated with water (Google search Wilden PX 400) there will be a rating sheet on that website from the manufacturer that states this. Now I understand that pump may do more so please don't bust me on that. I can tell you I was shocked to see this because I have always been told that pump is rated @ 50GPM. I totally disagree with the 8 lb sand load (Show ME) the maximum amount of sand you can run through that pump is 3 lbs with1 to 2 being ideal. On 90% of your jobs a 1 to 3 lbs load is just fine and I don't want to hear it folks because we've all done it!! Fact is, anything over that you will probably be watching it go down the drain because its going to come out of the sealer anyway through tracking. The fact still remains though you are going to have situations where you will need to use heavy sand loads thats where a Piston will come in handy.

    The real problem of this whole pump thing is we must face facts!!! Coal Tar will soon become a material of the past. Then what?? Asphalt Emulsion!!! In my 14 years in the business both as a contractor and a manufacturer I have never seen the broad range of material inconsistencies that I see in the Asphalt Emulsion Industry. The thick materials that we are seeing and the manufacturer saying NO WATER or very little water. I have seen first hand a situation where we had to loan one of our machines to a local contractor with a M4 who could not move his AE. The M4 also has a max pressure of 120 psi. The piston has a max of 1500 psi adjustable. As soon as you fire up the compressor. If you have a pressure problem with a piston pump you have alot of adjustment to be able to pump what you need to pump.

    By the way thanks for the Welcome Back!!! We are glad to be here and feel fortunate that we can come back and make such an impact we truly look forward to hearing from everyone!!!
    We will disagree with you all at some point but don't take it personally we want to learn from each other.
  7. NPCA

    NPCA LawnSite Member
    Messages: 34

    Wilden P4 - 38 mm (1 1/2") Metal Pump
    FLOW RATE TO 306.5 LPM (81 GPM)
    MAX PRESSURE = 8.6 BAR (125 PSI)

    Or the latest:

    Wilden P800 - 51 mm (2") Advanced Metal Pump
    FLOW RATE TO 591 (156 GPM)
    MAX PRESSURE = 8.6 BAR (125 PSIG)

    Now that's water. Admittedly sealer is much thicker and many manufacturers put too much hose and/or too little compressor on their units (wand hose should be 75' maximum for heavier sand loads)
    But just to be fair Wilden pumps were developed for abrasive/hard to pump materials. The problem is many sealcoat machine manufacturers do not properly size pump/air source/discharge for correct performance because of the costs.
    Of course the old Neyra (no longer made) and SealMaster hydraulic diaphragms had more power but a huge cost in comparison.
    The piston is the all-around pump of choice for many people and applications, no argument there and many large sealing companies have both.

    However the OP was talking about building his own and IF he sized everything right he could do with a Wilden system very well. We have members spraying asphalt emulsions or coal tar with extra additives with 5-6 lbs. sand/black beauty on a regular basis... But they have experience with their materials and machinery.

    It's sad that if you look at the requirements chart for one particular air pump and look at the units sold by one of the biggest "names" in sealcoating using that pump; their air is so under-powered it would do good to spray a thin mix with a decent fan & 1 tip. Yet they charge very high prices and use a 100' hose and even offer a spray bar option :dizzy:

    PS: Pistons really shine with big spray bars :weightlifter:
  8. NealMfg/SalesMgr

    NealMfg/SalesMgr LawnSite Member
    Messages: 10

    Ok Don now we are getting somewhere when you say the hydraulic diaphragm I do agree that pump will handle the mix you are talking about. In most circumstances yr looking at spending more than a piston unless the franchise is having a fire sale and that happens quite often @ Sealmaster dealerships.

    I stand by my comments on Wilden!!!

    Look forward to arguing with you again soon ;))

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