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Calling all 52" Next Gen Lazer owners and Toro G3 owners

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by ktoom, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. ktoom

    ktoom LawnSite Member
    Messages: 126

    Okay as some of you may know from my other thread, i have been having a on going issue with my Next gen lazer not having enough power when bagging. The motor looses power in thick grass and while going up the slightest grade. I started out with a 52" 23 kohler Next gen Lazer Z advantage series X. Then Exmark was gonna get me a new mower, but we decided to get the regular Lazer Z 52 with the 27HP Kohler. We still have the same problem with this new mower. When u take the ultra vac off the problem is gone.
    I was wondering if the new pump system is robbing too much power and i have told this to my dealer. Second i compared the engine spec's of the 27hp kohler and the 24hp kawi that exmark offers for the Lazer Z 52's. The kawi is pretty much equal in torque and c.u.'s. I know Toro offers a 23hp and 27hp Kawi as well as a 23, 25 and 27 hp kohler for the're 52's. My dealer has been in contact with Kohler. Kohler wants them to do a leak down test and vacum test on the mower. I think they wont find anything wrong.
    I wanna know how many of you guys have a Next Gen Lazer 52 or a Toro G3 52" with the Ultra vac?
  2. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    I'd have gone with the 60" for increased engine choices and bigger pumps and tires.

    Looks like it's either the 24 Kawi or 27 Kohler. On paper, the Kohler looks better.

    I remember having the 27hp LC Kawi on my old Lazer and the Ultra-Vac REALLY worked that engine on a 60". The UV's really take power.
  3. Martinson9

    Martinson9 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 201

    We have a G3 with a 27 Kawi and UltraVac. We don't ever bag grass with it, but when we do fall cleanup it seemed to have more than enough power. Our older Toro Z with a 23 has plenty of power for the soft cloth bagger.

    Something doesn't seem right. Is the grass you are cutting super long and fairly wet? One thing that helps with us is that we talk to the local Toro Distributor (not dealer) and he usually can point us in the right direction of any problems.
  4. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    Martinson, your 27 Kawi is 125cc larger than the OP's 27hp Kohler or the 24hp Kawi on the eXmarks.

    That 27hp Kawi is a beast with 852cc's and 53 lb/ft of torque.

    Compared to:

    23hp Kohler 674cc's and 40 lb/ft of torque.
    24hp Kawi 726cc's and 41 lb/ft of torque.
    27hp Kohler 725cc's and 42 lb/ft of torque.

    The 40 lb/ft class engines never did overly well with spindle driven vacs systems.

    Just as a comparison, I had that LC'd Lazer with Ultra-Vac and it really struggled. At the time I bought mine, it was the most powerful engine available.

    27hp LC'd Kawi 745cc's and 43 lb/ft of torque.
  5. Martinson9

    Martinson9 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 201

    We have a 23HP Kawi that does fine with a bagger. His mower should have plenty of power for a bagger.
  6. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    Well, one mans "fine" is another mans "not enough power". Just running my old UV'd Lazer....pushing the sticks to accelerate on pavement would drop the RPM's a couple hundred. Get it in grass/leaves and throw in a hill and it was what I would call underpowered. Did I return it? No, but that engine WORKED when I hooked up the UV!

    Today's Big Blocks barely break a sweat and dont even make a sound with the UV attached.

    But just so you know....

    23hp Kawi 675cc's and 40 lb/ft of torque.

    The 23/25 Kawi's were overproducing engines back then, and still today!
  7. ktoom

    ktoom LawnSite Member
    Messages: 126

    Lets put it this way, i can go up a hill or slight grade with the deck all the way up, pto engaged, not cutting any grass and the engine will still bog down.

    Now back before i got a my state job at DOT, I did landscaping for my cousin. He had a Lesco 48''ztr with a Peco bagging system and a Hustler 72''ATZ with a clam shell bagger. Then he sold them, cuz he had them for 3 years when i had started working for him, and bought 3 new 2005 52" Lazer Z Hp's. All of them had the Ultra vac system. Then the year after that he bought 2 new 2006 Lazer Z 60'' 35hp briggs with the ultra vac on both. Im not trying to give my life story, but this isn't my first time on a mower. I put a good amount of time on all the mowers stated above.
    I loved that 35HP briggs cuz u could fly with it bagging or just mowing. I had one of those on my crew and one of the 52 HP's. I mowed with the HP's for a year before we got the 60incher and knew what they were capable of doing. We mowed some crazy hills with them bagging and not bagging. I never noticed a bogging problem like we have now. BUT those were all had the 23 Kawi motor's.
    Okay so fast forward to present time, now im mowing only part time to help my brother. We bought a used 2006 Lazer Z HP with the ultra vac last season. I knew what to expect of the mower cuz it was the same mower i used in the past. That thing goes up hills better than the new mower, with the bagger engaged while cutting grass.
    Now im at the point with the new mower, wondering if we should try to trade it back in or ask for are money back. Then start shopping again in the spring time. My dealer sells Toro and Scag too, so I was thinking about demoing a 27HP Kawi 52 with a bagger. I think that would run much better.
  8. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    Do you know if he has anymore 27hp Kohler 52" around to try? The 27 is used on much bigger more demanding pump mowers, but the UV is what's bringing it to it's knees.

    That 27 Kawi should be a beast on the 52" deck with small pumps.
  9. ktoom

    ktoom LawnSite Member
    Messages: 126

    My dealer doesn't have much on the floor right now, but im sure he can get another one asap.

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