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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve got a 2001 Toro Z Master 72” cut with a Kawasaki FD750D liquid cooled engine. I just got done totally rebuilding the engine. The only thing that isn’t new is the crank case, heads, and flywheel. Everything else is brand new. It isn’t getting fire to the spark plugs. I replaced the coils , the spark plugs , the voltage regulator all of the fuses. I mean everything is new. I even replaced the ignition. Could they have maybe given me the wrong coils. The reason why I ask is because the two coils they gave me are exactly alike. I looked in my manual and it shows the coils as looking the same but the wires are on opposite sides ? I need all the help I can get. I’m at my wits end on this one.
 

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You verified no spark, correct? This isn’t just a no start condition, right?

Why did you replace the coils?

The single most likely cause of no spark in this instance would be the magnetos (ignition coil) is being grounded out. First most likely cause is you pinched the kill wire when install the flywheel shroud. Second most Likely cause is from a misplaced wire or faulty safety switch.

As a test, you could pull the kill wire out of the engine harness connector. You will have to ground that wire to shut it down if it starts. Otherwise, start chasing wires.
 

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The reason why I ask is because the two coils they gave me are exactly alike. I looked in my manual and it shows the coils as looking the same but the wires are on opposite sides ?

That is interesting that you say that. Couple of weeks ago, I replaced the coils on an FX801. Both coils looked exactly the same, just 2 different part numbers. I could not see any difference in them. I know from doing these, that the wire is longer on the one side.
Anyway, I made sure that the coils went on the correct side as to there part number. Any chance you could have flipped them ? Wrong side ? And FWIW, I use a filecard to set the air gape.....
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They would still fire even if they were on the wrong side. As long as the magnet passes by, a magneto doesn’t care. They would still fire even if you spun the engine backwards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You verified no spark, correct? This isn’t just a no start condition, right?

Why did you replace the coils?

The single most likely cause of no spark in this instance would be the magnetos (ignition coil) is being grounded out. First most likely cause is you pinched the kill wire when install the flywheel shroud. Second most Likely cause is from a misplaced wire or faulty safety switch.

As a test, you could pull the kill wire out of the engine harness connector. You will have to ground that wire to shut it down if it starts. Otherwise, start chasing wires.
I replaced the coils because one of them was bad. I figured that if I replaced one and I was already in that deep I just as well replace them both. I have disconnected the kill wire and still no fire. I got the two other new coils that are marked 1&2. I’m going to replace them and see what happens. I’ve already tested all of the safety switches and they everyone test good. I have literally done everything I can think of to this engine I even pulled it all apart and made sure it was in time which I already knew it was but I still checked it anyway.
 

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I replaced the coils because one of them was bad. I figured that if I replaced one and I was already in that deep I just as well replace them both. I have disconnected the kill wire and still no fire. I got the two other new coils that are marked 1&2. I’m going to replace them and see what happens. I’ve already tested all of the safety switches and they everyone test good. I have literally done everything I can think of to this engine I even pulled it all apart and made sure it was in time which I already knew it was but I still checked it anyway.
A magneto is pretty stupid. It doesn’t need anything to make it work other than a magnet passing by it. It doesn’t care if it is in time, or if you spin the engine backwards, it will still fire.

You didn’t directly answer my questions though: You did verify no spark correct? This isn’t just that it won’t start, it actually has no spark?

New question: where did you disconnect the kill wire? At the harness? Or directly on the mag?
 

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Chances are you wouldn't have gotten two brand new defective coils. One maybe. Two, highly unlikely. If the kill lead is disconnected and still no spark that leaves a bad flywheel magnet or if they will mount upside down, maybe they are upside down. Some coils won't fire if mounted upside down. Some won't fit if you try to mount them upside down but some will. Just a thought.
 

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Chances are you wouldn't have gotten two brand new defective coils. One maybe. Two, highly unlikely. If the kill lead is disconnected and still no spark that leaves a bad flywheel magnet or if they will mount upside down, maybe they are upside down. Some coils won't fire if mounted upside down. Some won't fit if you try to mount them upside down but some will. Just a thought.
How exactly could you mount a magneto upside down?

And a coil can be mounted upside down and still fire, but they typically overheat mounted in that position if they are oil filled.

I do agree that the likelihood of two coils out of the box is extremely, extremely unlikely. Even if they were both China made
 

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How exactly could you mount a magneto upside down?

And a coil can be mounted upside down and still fire, but they typically overheat mounted in that position if they are oil filled.

I do agree that the likelihood of two coils out of the box is extremely, extremely unlikely. Even if they were both China made
Most can be mounted upside down and still fire but there are some out there that will not fire upside down. I don't know on this particular one so no harm in checking. For example the ignition module on the Kohler Command single cylinder won't fire if mounted upside down.
 

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Most can be mounted upside down and still fire but there are some out there that will not fire upside down. I don't know on this particular one so no harm in checking. For example the ignition module on the Kohler Command single cylinder won't fire if mounted upside down.
Ok.... we are mixing up some terms here.
A coil is not a magneto.
For some odd stupid reason, small engine manufacturers call a magneto an “ignition module”. So, they are one in the same.

In the example you listed, a single cylinder Kohler Command, it uses a magneto. I don’t even know how you could mount it upside down, but no it wouldn’t fire that way. No magneto would fire if the two metal induction towers we’re pointing away from the flywheel magnet.
A COIL, however, wouldn’t care about mounting position. Unless it is oil filled, then may overheat.

Seriously, if someone was ever ignorant enough to mount a magneto upside down, they should have their tools taken away. Like the guys who mount brake calipers on the wrong side and can’t figure out why they can’t get the brakes to bleed..... you know.... with the bleeder pointed at the ground.
 

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Upside down was probably a poor chose of a word for a horizontal engine. Wrong side out is what I meant. I don't know of any that could be mounted with the towers pointing away from the flywheel. Since I do know of one that won't fire mounted wrong side out or if it does fire it's very weak I couldn't say another one out there might not work the same way. I don't know every ignition system and will admit to not being extremely familiar with Kawasaki. Thought flipping it over might be worth a try.

As far as magnetos go,Tecumseh was probably the only company that actually was correct with their use of the word magneto. Other than actual magneto manufacturers like Fairbanks Morse or Wico. For Tecumseh, magneto included, points, condenser, coil, lamination and flywheel. The way I used to teach techs in my class was if the engine has points and condenser it has a coil. An engine without points and condenser has an ignition module which includes a coil and the SWR or switch to fire that coil that takes the place of the points. Even so we still used the terms ignition module and ignition coil interchangeably. As long as we all knew what we meant it was fine.
 

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Upside down was probably a poor chose of a word for a horizontal engine. Wrong side out is what I meant. ............... Thought flipping it over might be worth a try.
I follow you now. I've never ran across one mounted wrong side out, and I've never mounted one incorrectly. I suppose some may have a diode in the coil to prevent backfire. Plausible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
A magneto is pretty stupid. It doesn’t need anything to make it work other than a magnet passing by it. It doesn’t care if it is in time, or if you spin the engine backwards, it will still fire.

You didn’t directly answer my questions though: You did verify no spark correct? This isn’t just that it won’t start, it actually has no spark?

New question: where did you disconnect the kill wire? At the harness? Or directly on the mag?
Yes I actually used two spark testers. One in each coil wire and no spark at all. I even made sure both spark testers were working by hooking them to my other lawn mower and turned the engine over and they worked as they should. I disconnected both kill switch wires directly from the coils. Still have no fire/ spark.
 

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Yes I actually used two spark testers. One in each coil wire and no spark at all. I even made sure both spark testers were working by hooking them to my other lawn mower and turned the engine over and they worked as they should. I disconnected both kill switch wires directly from the coils. Still have no fire/ spark.
Ok..... you are missing something incredibly obvious. You have to be. With the kill wire removed on two new Magnetos and you have no spark, you either have them mounted incorrectly (as mentioned above, inside out; or too far from the flywheel), the flywheel magnet is gone, or they are junk. I can’t imagine they are both junk.

Post a picture flywheel side of what you are looking at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The magnet is on the flywheel. The coils are mounted the only way I could mount them with the ones they sent me. I spaced/ gapped them with a normal size business card per the company I bought them from. They both are #1 coils and the manual calls for a #1 & a #2 coil which I got this time. I haven’t installed them yet because I have to remove the engine to access the coils because of the fan shroud. I was just trying to figure out if it could be something else before I go through all of the trouble of taking the engine back loose. Not a big deal I’ll try it. I just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas I haven’t tried yet. Thank you.
 

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The magnet is on the flywheel. The coils are mounted the only way I could mount them with the ones they sent me. I spaced/ gapped them with a normal size business card per the company I bought them from. They both are #1 coils and the manual calls for a #1 & a #2 coil which I got this time. I haven’t installed them yet because I have to remove the engine to access the coils because of the fan shroud. I was just trying to figure out if it could be something else before I go through all of the trouble of taking the engine back loose. Not a big deal I’ll try it. I just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas I haven’t tried yet. Thank you.
If you can’t access the coils because you can’t remove the fan shroud unless you remove the engine..,,, then how exactly were you able to unhook the mag kill wire from the coils as I suggested, and you stated you did try?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The magnet is on the flywheel. The coils are mounted the only way I could mount them with the ones they sent me. I spaced/ gapped them with a normal size business card per the company I bought them from. They both are #1 coils and the manual calls for a #1 & a #2 coil which I got this time. I haven’t installed them yet because I have to remove the engine to access the coils because of the fan shroud. I was just trying to figure out if it could be something else before I go through all of the trouble of taking the engine back loose. Not a big deal I’ll try it. I just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas I haven’t tried yet. Thank you.
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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
This is the engine I’m working on. Note the spark testers and the coils are there. The kill wires I disconnected are the little wires on the coils/magneto’s or what ever they are called. Still no spark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If you can’t access the coils because you can’t remove the fan shroud unless you remove the engine..,,, then how exactly were you able to unhook the mag kill wire from the coils as I suggested, and you stated you did try?
With a pair of needle nose pliers. You can see the wires in the pictures. You can unplug the wires you just can’t take the bolts out of the mag/coils without pulling the engine loose. I have no reason to lie about it. You’ll see in the pictures it’s a tight fit.
 
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