Celcius/pro sedge mix too hot?

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by grassmasterswilson, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. grassmasterswilson

    grassmasterswilson LawnSite Platinum Member
    from nc
    Messages: 4,988

    Went back to some lawns that were sprayed over the last 7-10 days and seeing some burning from my spray. Not sure if the heat and humidity caused it or the combination of dew/spray and granular fert.

    I'm using a zspray that is calibrated at 15 gpa but going to recheck today. I'm mixing the following...

    Celcius at .24 oz per gallon
    Prosedge at .05 oz per Gallon
    Mso at 1/4 oz per gallon

    This mix seems fine on common Bermuda but the hybrids are showing some signs. Hoping the fert and a mow will fix everything.
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  2. Skipster

    Skipster LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,086

    Sounds to me like you used the wrong surfactant. The ProSedge label calls for only non-ionic surfactant containing no less than 80% active material. Using MSO can injure turf.

    Although the Celsius label says MSO is acceptable for use, I’ve seen phyto from that combination, too.

    I think the lesson is pretty clear here: don’t use MSO unless the label specifically calls for it. If you’re not spraying Drive, you probably don’t need MSO.

    The discolored spots should recover, but don’t fertilize them – that will just make it worse. Give them enough water so they won’t dry out and you’ll see improvement in a couple of weeks.
  3. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,750

    If I use Celsius In a z spray tank mix it is usually for broadcast apps to control crabgrass(high rate) not the medium rate. Metsulfuron will handle just about any other weed listed on the Celsius label other than Fescue. If you are using the mix you just described you must have a lawn with a pretty bad weed problem. Surely you told your customer that there would be some temporary discoloration??? If not, you should have.

    Some here might lead you to believe that when done properly, the weeds will die, the lawn never has any discoloration and everything will be "peaches'n'cream". In reality, that is almost never the case...

    When using combinations of potent herbicides to control nasty weed infestations, collateral damage should be expected to a degree....by you and the customer. But, the customer has to be informed of this. Set expectations.
    I always use the phrase "It's going to look worse before it looks better". That usually prepares them for just about anything and 99.9% of the time there is never a problem.

    You shouldn't be performing "Burn & Return" but some damage should be expected with the mix you are using.
  4. ArTurf

    ArTurf LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Ark
    Messages: 4,471

    When doing post sprays I use more water 1gallon per 1000. Not sure if that would have made the diff but I feel like it gives me more wiggle room if calibration or speed is off a little plus not such a concentrated mix. Maybe just in my head. I know it is more filling and less efficient but I sleep better.
  5. grassmasterswilson

    grassmasterswilson LawnSite Platinum Member
    from nc
    Messages: 4,988

    I'm just spot spraying lawns. I've tried them separately and feel it's easier on me to do them together. I'm also trying to use a mix that works on all warm season turf. Ironically the yellowing I have seen is on hybrid Bermuda and not common Bermudez centipede. It is also only on a few which could mean bad mix or adverse weather conditions.

    Skip may be onto something. Prosedge likes regular 80/20 but most of us have seen celcius work better with mso.

    Ted - I've seen pretty good grassy weed control or suppression with the medium rate although most of the crab i see now is young. I use msm in round 2 at a low rate.

    This mix is the best I've found for the most brad range of weeds. Will try 80/20 next time as the mso could be too hot.
  6. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,132

    Which hybrid? Tifway 419 and 328 are sensitive. I find it hard to apply anything without at least a little discoloration on 328. Tifgrand is some sturdy grass.
  7. grassmasterswilson

    grassmasterswilson LawnSite Platinum Member
    from nc
    Messages: 4,988

    Seeing it mostly on 419. None on centipede which I figured would show the first signs.

    The bad thing is that I'm spot spraying with the zspray so I step on the boom and have left a few nice yellow squares.

    It will grow out but just look bad.

    Could the mso in the mix be the problem? I'm guessing the mso made the prosedge too hot. Maybe just go with 80/20 at the same rate next time.

    What else is everyone spraying that would work on all warm season turf and get weeds and sedges?
  8. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,132

    I am using the same things. With the preface that "you have to break a few eggs to make the omelet". I have the good fortune of customers being used to yard people walking around with hot mixes of MSMA or Trimec. So, if I boom spray their lawn with say, Dismiss and Celsius causing the tips of the grass to yellow, they will not get excited. The tips mow off next week. Nothing like the missile test sites left by the old herbicides. The one time I did a lower volume application of Dismiss and Celsius in 20 gallons per acre, I got more browning than if I did it in my usual 40 or 50.

    What looks bad is the spot treatment. You would not notice as much if the whole lawn were the same. Celsius is somewhat of a growth regulator. I am suspecting that combining halosulfuron with most other sulfonylurea herbicides creates a hot mix. Tribute Total is the three way package of Revolver, Celsius, and Prosedge. That will yellow a lawn, but not as bad as MSMA would. In the old days, all there was for purple nutsedge control in warm season grasses was Image. That could be a nasty application. When spot sprayed in a lawn, the spot would show up as an area of stunted and purpled or yellowed grass. Took about a month to grow out of it. I only broadcast Image on well fertilized lawns to minimize the discoloration and regulated growth.
  9. ArTurf

    ArTurf LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Ark
    Messages: 4,471

    For what it's worth I've used a mix of metsulfuron .50 and certainty 1.25 on St Aug with no burning.
    Certainty seems pretty forgiving in my experience
  10. DA Quality Lawn & YS

    DA Quality Lawn & YS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,296

    I don't even use MSO with Drive XLR8, only a non ionic, and it works to perfection. When in doubt, be conservative with your adjuvants.

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