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Chickory: 1, Fiesta: 0

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by ParadiseLS, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. ParadiseLS

    ParadiseLS LawnSite Member
    Messages: 76

    Fiesta seems to kill everything that I need to have killed, except for chickory that is not only surviving the applications, but is getting by unscathed but for a few brown spots on a few of the weeds.

    I'm thinking I will either have to dig the weed up with a weed puller, torch it or spray it carefully with horticultural vinegar.

    Due to the dense clay soil in this region, weed-pulling is rarely successful for deep taproots. torching would require a few efforts to fully kill off the root, if it is going to be successful at all. and with the torching and vinegar, what a pain in the ass to have to spot spray these weeds and work very hard to prevent runoff onto the surrounding grass.

    Any suggestions on the best course of action for this specific weed?
  2. HayBay

    HayBay LawnSite Senior Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 846

    Rumor is, They are coming out with a new label for FIESTA

    "Hand Pick all weed every 2 weeks, after the course of 3 years if weeds are still present use FIESTA"

    "If Fiesta does not work, Hand Pick some more"

    If you think Vinegar is the answer to kill Chicory in lawns, I can give you the new hand picking label on that one too.

    How do you think Fiesta, Torching or Vinegar will help. The tap root is still there all you are doing is basically cutting the top off with chemicals or fire.

    Do us all a favor and vote for TIM HUDAK, no guarantees but its better than nothing.
  3. ParadiseLS

    ParadiseLS LawnSite Member
    Messages: 76

    Well, you can knock Fiesta, but it has worked reasonably well for me (except of course for chickory, which it is not labelled to kill in the first place).

    Certainly it is not as effective as the old WeedOut, but if you tinker around with application rates and find the right balance, then it does the trick for me. Unfortunately, all the rain of the past couple weeks is bringing in the new crop of Autumn weeds.

    Also, at this point, I think I might be happy to just kill off the surface leaves of the chickory and weaken the root a bit. Because the chickory went unscathed in June when we sprayed lawns, they have just gotten bigger as the dry weather made the grass dormant and no other weeds were there to compete with it. The leaves are spreading so big, it would be a significant victory just to set the chickory back to a small sprout of leaves again, hopefully allowing the grass to fill in around it a bit to prevent the chickory from getting so big this time.

    I sincerely doubt having a Conservative government, even if they won every single seat in the parliament, would solve a damn thing. the difference between liberal and conservative is usually nothing, or at the very least, the rate of growth of government. the liberals might grow the government 25% in 4 years, the conservatives only 19.5%. How many laws, no matter how stupid, are ever repealed? If the Libertarians find a candidate for my riding, I will vote for that person. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time hitting the polls just so that some pundit can rationalize my vote as an endorsement of the system as a whole.
  4. HayBay

    HayBay LawnSite Senior Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 846


    How many times have you applied fiesta this year?

    I have seen many lawns with fiesta applications on them.
    They all have weeds now. They did last year too.

    Application rate doesn't change a thing, its been tried many times.
    (You will see top kill within 3 days, its true.) Thats the extent.

    Some big LCOs are on their 3rd or 4th round now.

    Do your lawn weeds (including dandelion) experience regrowth within 1-2 weeks?

    Do you spot spray with a product (Fiesta) that greens a lawn where it is applied(Iron). It must look funny.

    Are you charging 1 to 3 times more to apply fiesta as opposed to banned products?

    Have you had any experience with Alternative products to (glyphosate) roundup?

    I am wondering if you are experiencing good results from these products too.

    Your probably right its the pundit thing.

    If we banned synthetic pesticides because there are alternative products that worked I would have no problems with that.

    That unfortunately is not the case.

    We need products that work, its that simple.

    Fiesta is only labeled for 16 weeds, what do you do about the other 30 plus weeds?

    I wonder how the crab grass is doing in your area
    or the chinch bugs
    or the grubs

    No solution for those. Unless you count Corn Gluten or Nematodes (35% effective). That percentage is right from the University of Guelph, where we get our pesticide licenses from.

    If we had a choice between 2,4-D and Fiesta , I will bet you $100 that you will use 2,4-D. Take me up on that offer. Or I can donate it to your Liberal party fund.

    Did the Liberal Mpp in your riding just recently retire like the other 15 did?
  5. ParadiseLS

    ParadiseLS LawnSite Member
    Messages: 76

    I have done Fiesta on a 2-spray cycle in the Spring. Broadcast spray once, spot spray about 10 days later. The weeds have slowly over the course of 4-8 weeks reemerged. In the last couple weeks since the drought ended and the rain has been heavy, the weeds are growing more quickly (of course) but then again all of my properties that aren't significantly affected by grubs are showing enough grass growth that weeds are mostly crowded out. Don't get me wrong, I suspect that as the weather cools a bit more and the rain slows down (assuming it does) to a more normal pace, that the weeds will gradually emerge and teh grass cannot crowd them to small size for ever. But, on the other hand, I never expected Fiesta to keep the lawn clear of weeds after only one treatment in Spring. I fully expected a Fall app to be necessary.

    Yes it costs way more. On quality of performance and on price, of course I would prefer the 2,4-D products. I would have to review the studies on 2,4-D to determine whether or not I would use them again. I have heard a lot about roundup and weedout and other products being benign to humans as long as the product is applied correctly and allowed a few hours to dry and do its thing on the lawn. Because the ban makes truth fairly moot, I haven't bothered to investigate the issue further. On the issue of soil health, I might find it more economical to use compost and compost teas along with RoundUp and abandon Fiesta. Maybe I'll take it into deeper consideration before next season.

    Please, do not donate to the Liberals...or the NDP, or the Conservatives. Read carefully, i said if the LIBERTARIAN party puts forth a candidate in my riding, I will vote for him. I am an anarcho-capitalist/anarcho-libertarian. I could care less about the efficacy of Fiesta or RoundUp, I oppose the ban on the grounds it is an abuse against the free exercise of private property.
  6. HayBay

    HayBay LawnSite Senior Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 846

    Roundup is the product that people are concerned about when it comes to soil health. Search for Don Huber, you will see why. That is one reason why Compost Teas and Roundup are not compatible in some views.

    As for the Fiesta apps, 2 are only allowed with a minimum of 4 weeks in between. As per label.

    If you look at a product like Par III (2,4-D) it will say 2 apps plus spot spraying on the label. THis is not the case for FIESTA, it says 2 apps only with no mention of spot spraying.

    The suppliers here promote more than 2 apps by justifiying Spot Spraying.
    I doubt they care about our well being when it comes to following the label.
    They sell product.

    I am sure you are purchasing from some of the same persons I am. There is only about a half dozen suppliers in Ontario last time I looked.

    Excuse my ignorance regarding the definition of Libertarian.

    I totally agree with your statement about abuse against the free exercise of private property. The activists claim that these products migrate beyond the fence line either throught drift or soil and that is where the problem lies even though Health Canada has addressed these concerns.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011

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