[queen of spades]

From my city's code:

No equipment operator or supervisory personnel shall participate in any excavation or trenching or in any way work in an excavation or trench unless such person holds a valid certificate evidencing satisfactory completion of a required educational program on safe trench/excavation practices. No other person shall participate in or work in any excavation or trenching site unless a certificate holder is present at the excavation or trench site where work is being performed.​

They define excavation as:

any manmade cavity or depression in the earth(s surface, including its sides, walls, or faces, form by earth removal and producing unsupported earth conditions as a result of the excavation. If installed forms or similar structures reduce the depth to width relationship, an excavation may become a trench.​

So according to this, digging a 3' deep french drain requires an OSHA approved excavation certificate.

Does anyone have such a cert? I searched and didn't see much info on the subject, and nothing in my area.

 

[AWJ Services]

From my city's code:

No equipment operator or supervisory personnel shall participate in any excavation or trenching or in any way work in an excavation or trench unless such person holds a valid certificate evidencing satisfactory completion of a required educational program on safe trench/excavation practices. No other person shall participate in or work in any excavation or trenching site unless a certificate holder is present at the excavation or trench site where work is being performed.​

They define excavation as:

any manmade cavity or depression in the earth(s surface, including its sides, walls, or faces, form by earth removal and producing unsupported earth conditions as a result of the excavation. If installed forms or similar structures reduce the depth to width relationship, an excavation may become a trench.​

So according to this, digging a 3' deep french drain requires an OSHA approved excavation certificate.

Does anyone have such a cert? I searched and didn't see much info on the subject, and nothing in my area.

What city?

I think that it only pertains to trenches that can be entered by a human. A 12 inch french drain trench would not apply.

You would need to call someone who does utility work as they would need someone on staff for this.

 

[curtisfarmer]

Interesting....and confusing. In NH and MA, no city or other municpal authoirty can supercede state liscensing or certificate requirements. Sounds like they pulled that from the BOCA code book or some other building code organization to prevent hack contractors. Do you need an excavation "certificate" in your state? That rule book seems pretty vague without spelling EXACTLY what regulation they are reffering to.

 

[Blue Goose]

Would they be referring to OSHA 10 certification? OSHA 10 does cover the operations that were listed if in fact that is what they're requiring. I know more and more job sites and contractors therein are requiring OSHA 10.

 

[AWJ Services]

It is not state mandated at this time.

You can get an OSHA 10 certificate online for about 100 bucks.

 

[DUSTYCEDAR]

They r just covering there butts incase someone falls in a trench
and trys to sue the city.

 

[wellbuilt]

I just eyed up a notice about soils certificate needed in NY.
I was thinking it was more for soil erosion then human safety's .
Our dirt is mostly clay and rock so there isnt much chance of cave in here but if I dig in town the town engineers are all over my ass with banking and trenching boxes . I don't work much more the 5 or 6' in the ground .

 

[YellowDogSVC]

I just eyed up a notice about soils certificate needed in NY.
I was thinking it was more for soil erosion then human safety's .
Our dirt is mostly clay and rock so there isnt much chance of cave in here b .

famous last words. I wouldn't trust any soil when it comes to my life.

 

[AWJ Services]

famous last words. I wouldn't trust any soil when it comes to my life.

You got that right. There have been numerous fatalities here in the metro Atlanta areas from trench cave ins.
Spoil piles are often the culprit.

 

[Darryl G]

Good luck enforcing that one. Guys around here still routinely do excavations without even marking it out/calling dig safe or pulling permits for their landscaping jobs. Yah, I dig on my own property without calling it in, which is technically illegal, but if it's on a customer's property I always do. OSHA doesn't apply to owner/operator activities BTW.

 

[YellowDogSVC]

OSHA doesn't apply to owner/operator activities BTW.

try and stop OSHA if an owner-operator makes a mistake with a chipper, chainsaw, or bucket truck in the tree service. They will fine whoever is still alive and has any stock in the family owned business. Yes, if you are working on your own property playing farmer ted, then OSHA probably won't bother you but if you hire out, you are fair game due to many of the rulings that have been handed down whether you have 1 employee or 14.

 

[Darryl G]

I'm an owner/operator and not an even an employee and OSHA does not apply. Technically my business has zero employees as an LLC. OSHA is set up to protect employees. They have zero jurisdiction over my operations and I'm sure of that.

SEC. 4. Applicability of This Act
(a) This Act shall apply with respect to employment performed in a workplace in a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Outer Continental Shelf Lands defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, Johnston Island, and the Canal Zone. The Secretary of the Interior shall, by regulation, provide for judicial enforcement of this Act by the courts established for areas in which there are no United States district courts having jurisdiction.

 

[Scag48]

My best guess is the OSHA 10 cert., which isn't difficult to get. I've had mine for 2 years, it's good for life once you've completed the training.

 

[Darryl G]

Don't know if this helps:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/trenchingexcavation/construction.html

I know we used to have a "competent person" supervising all excavations and we had an inhouse training program when I worked for an employer that routinely did large excavations.

 

[Blue Goose]

Every time I see the term "competent person" I think of the 'ol Three Stooges bit where someone asks, "are we in competent hands here?" and Curley responds "soytainly, we're all incompetent here!" nyuck, nyuck, nyuck....

Sorry for straying off topic...

 

[crab]

i have my hoisting license.to make sure i am covered ,its a revenue thing for the state you're in, but look at the bright side if you complain about illegals guess who cant get one ,like the advantage you have being a licensed contractor.

 

[YellowDogSVC]

I'm an owner/operator and not an even an employee and OSHA does not apply. Technically my business has zero employees as an LLC. OSHA is set up to protect employees. They have zero jurisdiction over my operations and I'm sure of that.

SEC. 4. Applicability of This Act
(a) This Act shall apply with respect to employment performed in a workplace in a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Outer Continental Shelf Lands defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, Johnston Island, and the Canal Zone. The Secretary of the Interior shall, by regulation, provide for judicial enforcement of this Act by the courts established for areas in which there are no United States district courts having jurisdiction.

that's all well and good. See what happens if you get hurt. You can explain it all day and I agree with you but the tentacles of OSHA or any government bureaucracy reach far and wide. Owner-operator won't mean much if you violate what is called "standards and practices" set forth for a specific industry. Doesn't matter if you are an employee, self-employed or independent contractor. Get hurt and someone finds out and a government official applies standards and practices test and you are probably look at fines if you fail it. Sure, you can probably file a protest, hire a lawyer, but at what cost? If you are "for hire", you are fair game for standards and practices as a minimum to set you up for government hassle.

 

[Scag48]

Double post, my bad. haha

 

[Scag48]

I'm an owner/operator and not an even an employee and OSHA does not apply. Technically my business has zero employees as an LLC. OSHA is set up to protect employees. They have zero jurisdiction over my operations and I'm sure of that.

SEC. 4. Applicability of This Act
(a) This Act shall apply with respect to employment performed in a workplace in a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Outer Continental Shelf Lands defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, Johnston Island, and the Canal Zone. The Secretary of the Interior shall, by regulation, provide for judicial enforcement of this Act by the courts established for areas in which there are no United States district courts having jurisdiction.

Just look at the acronym; Occupational Safety & Health Administration. Where does that say anything about "employees" only? What if Joe Blow walks onto a jobsite after hours and falls into a trench that you left opened up? Do you think that just because he's not an employee of your outfit and that he trespassed OSHA isn't going to come after you for not securing a work area? OSHA regulations are to be carried out within the confines of a specified work area regardless of who is at risk for injury. Failure to do so and the penalty is yours to take if they catch you. BTW, OSHA will cite you for any violiation regardless if anyone got hurt. They show up for an inspection and you don't pass with flying colors, they will fine you regardless of whether you have employees onsite or not, end of story. OSHA might as well be God because they can, and do, whatever the hell they want regardless of what you may think you can get away with. Good luck with your theory.

 

[Darryl G]

Sorry to argue but what I do is out of OSHA jurisdiction. "With respect to employment" If you don't believe me, call their hotline. And yes if Joe Blow falls in my trench, OSHA has nothing to do with it. OSHA relates to stardards for employers relating to their employees, that's it. And yes, OSHA can really throw the book at you, and your subcontractors in fact. You are responsbile for everything your subs do too...you both get fined.

Here...this pretty much sums up OSHA. It's not set up to protect me from myself or the general public from me.

SEC. 5. Duties
(a) Each employer --

(1) shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees;

(2) shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act.

29 USC 654
(b) Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct.

And for the record, I'm a pretty saftey conscious guy. I used to have the OSHA regulations practically memorized, the general industry standards and OSHA 1910.120 anyway. I used to do compliance audits for major manufacturers, had OSHA 40 Hazwopper and supervisor trainining for hazardous waste site operations, went through probably 15 eight hour refresher classes and was the site saftey officer on dozens of large scale hazardouls waste sites and wrote hundreds of site safety plans for all sort of jobs. I'm talking large excavations, inground gas tanks, entering vaults, pits, tanks, leaky drums, hazardous atmospheres, respirators, air tanks, moon suits, the whole 9 yards.

In 15 years, there were 2 accidents on my jobs, one a guy cut his thumb while cutting a piece of platic tubing and on another a guy ripped some skin off his hand moving a big compressor into a shed. Bought some nice racheting tubing cutters and told the other guy not to put his hand between a door jamb and a big ass compressor. Oh, someone got burned on a muffler too and someone stepped on a yellow jacket nest.