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Discussion in 'Tree Climbing, Pruning, Felling' started by Guest, Nov 3, 2008.
Good post. Don't agree, but good post.
Welcome Team Green Trees and I like your choice of cities to live in.
Where you located?
Pretty turf. I ride my motorcycle out thru there all the time. I am in Wyoming (home/office) and Hartwell (yard). I am small potatoes also but turn over a surprising amount of work too. You get a nice dose of hurricane work?
We have been doing storm work every day since the hurricane and this week is no exception. None of them are on the ground. The first 2 or 3 weeks every day was removing trees laying on or embedded in houses. Very high risk but also very profitable. Had my best month in my 40 year history. Bought lots of new toys. Shopping is most fun. Hunt and kill. I love equipment.
We have been operating in a triage fashion. Now we are often suggesting remedial work on busted up trees. Last week we did a commercial company assisted crane prune job on a giant oak. We also removed a busted up oak over a tennis court that measured 10 feet 10 inches dia at the base last week owned by Jake Sweeney. I don't drive much for estimates as most of my jobs are within 1 to 5 miles away and max of maybe 6 miles (Glendale). Most of these jobs at the beginning required no bid at all as they were just get it of the house and collect from the HO and they go to the ins co. We cut up a few trees inside houses.
Couldn't be a better situation anytime or any place for a tree company that is ready with the equipment and ability to do the work and high level clientel.
It ain't gonna last much through the winter tho.
I could have worded that better TGT. I think (hope) it will last thru the winter but by then it should be about thru. Lot of tree co.s out there, ours included, working 6 day weeks knocking it out daily.
What do you mean by the "sap is low?" or "real low"?
No, but the metabolism (life functions) of the tree slow down substantially. Nothing wrong with pruning in the winter.
Don't know Mike. You guys need to get connected with the ISA. Search "Trees are Good". Sap damage is not a valid concept. No offense meant really. Just trying to help.
You think those Bungles gonna go 8 and 0 like they are trying to get the fans to buy into. nono: way)
I have been a bit busy, but I did notice your thread. I guess I started out with what I would consider a TRADITIONAL climbing system. Double rope, or commonly refered to as DbRT. This system is the least equipment intensive system, which can be as simple as a rope and a carabiner. I was taught the Blakes hitch for my friction knot, and have used a wide range of knots to attach my 'biner to my saddle. If you own, or have to purchase your own equipment, you probably won't take long in incorperating a cambium or friction saver. This simple device not only reduces the damage of the rope on the tree crotch, BUT significantly reduces wear on your rope. If you are pruning trees it is nessessary to protect the tree from rope abrassion. The drawback of the friction saver is the time involved in installing it in the target crotch.
Once you have been in the tree climbing game a while, some people adopt the more efficient, but newer method of climbing called Single Rope technique, OR SRT for short. This system is more involved as far as equipment, but for old farts like me, the efficiency is worth tha added investment. The true SRT system requires the climber to switch over to a dynamic system once they have reached the place in the tree they need to work. The reason for this is that there is NO way to decend on their line. I have adopted a version of the SRT system called RAD (Rope Access and Decent). One of the issues that needs to be reconized is that by anchoring the climbing line to tha base of the tree, it CAN double the weight at the target crotch. The reason we anchor to the base of the tree is that it can be used as a rescue option IF the climber gets into trouble. Some of the advantages of the SRT system is that you don't have to be great at isolating your climbing line, and there is NO need to install a friction saver. The ratio of climbing gain is 1:1, unlike the DbRT system of 2:1. The drawbacks are the stress at the crotch, and the use of mechanical devices. SRT is really in its infancy in the tree working world. The system I use is as follows. Rope, 1 toothed assender, a Petzl Gri-Gri, 1 Petzl stop, 3 tri-act carabiners, and finally a couple 6 foot lengths of prusik cord. Sorry I don't have any pictures on this computer, If anyone NEEDS to see the system, just PM me, and I will forward photos or video to them.
If you really want to get fancy, there are now Hybrid systems out there. The winner of the Masters Challenge at our TCC, and our representative to the ISA ITCC, was using this system. As you can see, it is fairly elaborate, and should only be used by experienced climbers, with a through knowledge of knots and hitches. The beauty of this system is that the climber is climbing on a static system, and at any time they can lock off the static system and work of the dynamic system.
For the NEWBIES out there reading this, Climbing can be a dangerous undertaking, and I will not be held responsible for any injury from an accident resulting from reading this post. Please find yourself a experienced mentor, or better yet, find a Qualified trainer to get you started.
I should also add that in any of the three systems there ARE numerous variations of gear. My previous post is just the basic theory on each method. There are literally thousands of posts on the net about each.
The tree care industry is often reluctant to change, and of course there are regulations which are supposed to be adhered to. One thought that I had after last posting is that each individual situation might require a different climbing system. Complacency is what gets people hurt, keep an open mind to new ideas, and if you climb in your later years of life, the NEW methods may keep you doing it longer.
Treevet, did I say that I used the hybrid system? The original purpose of this thread was to discuss different systems used to work in trees. I personally know 3 of the best climbers in the Prairie Chapter that use that system. Granted, they don't use it in every tree they work, BUT, it is an option.
Perhaps IF you kept an open mind, and tried things that might make your job easier, you might be in a better mood. Ego is the most common problem in the tree industry. Sorry I tried to make things easier for the folks who want tree work to be their career. I know you have been in the game 4 times as long as I have, I just hope that a swollen head doesn't come with longevity in the industry.
Keep up the good work treevet!
Dave, you are correct! There are several ways to "skin a cat", just as there are many ways to work a tree. I agree, use the most efficient way possible.
The advantages of the more advanced climbing methods are for those finesse climbing jobs. For old farts like me (with my many war injuries) if I have to enter the tree from a ways away from the trunk (with no access for machinery), I could footlock (like sloth and waste energy) OR I could use the RAD system (my personal choice), OR even use the Hybrid system. The fact is that the more advanced system, by having the climber using their WHOLE body, preserves energy for working the tree.
The other reason that the SRT methods are efficient is that you don't have to monkey around isolating both ends of the rope, AND installing a FS/cambium saver. Like you say "on removals" git r dun. Crane/Bucket etc. are real handy tools, BUT unlike you and me (equipment overload-manpower shy) there ARE folks out there that don't have access to that much equipment.
The three guys I know that use the hybrid system are very experienced tree workers. Frank Chipps (former world record holder in FL) and one of his employees (2007 Prairie chapter rep to the ITCC), climb trees every day for a living. Frank doesn't own a BT, even though he could probably afford one. The other fellow (2008 rep to the ITCC) teaches climbing at Olds college, and works 5 months a year as a climber.
Yup, as we age we look for better ways to do things, I wouldn't be suggesting changing IF I hadn't tried it out. I also would let ya know if it wasn't making life easier. We develop comfort in the things we do well, but if something new comes along, I like to judge it for myself.
On another note, I have NEVER been paid to climb a tree. I get paid for what do to the trees. Trust me, I have more work to do than I have time left on this world, I need to be as efficient as possible.