Compaction strategy raised paver area

2517 Views 51 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Mitty87, 4 mo ago

Mitty87

Discussion Starter · 8 mo ago

Doing a big job where the lower section is retaining wall and 25x25 paver area. The top is 4” base and bottom is 22”, so about 10” average really.

it’s way in a backyard and down a bit of a hill. I do have a 17g excavator there now so with a chain I can move around a compactor, but want to be fairly efficient.
Basically need a machine that can cover 8” lifts if possible. Does anyone know what machine I can rent that can do that?

or should I just do a jumping Jack machine on the bottom 200’ sq where it’s the deep road base

21 - 40 of 52 Posts

Hayduke

· #21 · 6 mo ago

Mitty87 said:
those brackets - I let them homeowner do it but he didn’t mention it until 2nd to last course. So it’s a 12” rebar with bracket and concrete in the top 2 rows. Then I notched caps around it. I know technically they say 3 rows.

So the rebar is attached to the brackets? Or?

Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #22 · 6 mo ago

Yea the brackets are square and looks like he welded the rebar onto them. His weld probably breaks/fence breaks before 2 rows of block filled with concrete is ripped out

Hayduke

· #23 · 6 mo ago

Mitty87 said:
Yea the brackets are square and looks like he welded the rebar onto them. His weld probably breaks/fence breaks before 2 rows of block filled with concrete is ripped out

Let's hope that doesn't happen at the wrong time. I don't think I would trust a client's welding capability unless I had written a clause in my contract, or a final invoice signed agreement for indemnity if the railings fail. Not to be a worry wart, just saying.

Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #24 · 6 mo ago

Well he did the weld and he set them in concrete himself, building the rail as well. So I’m not too worried about it - only thing I’m worried about is our wall not failing. I haven’t actually touched anything - except cutting in the caps around it.

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Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #25 · 6 mo ago

Lost time to snow but anyway should be another 6-8 days. All free hand. Just had to have curves and be raised.

the hand rail he built is nice but not super solid But don’t think people will be hanging off of it

Don’t buy sledge from Amazon, you can see on the pallet it’s already falling apart after 3 months

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Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #26 · 6 mo ago

Oh and the wall does have 1 percent slope and going to crown up in the middle of patio but only about .5”, can’t notice it

slope starts from the straighter stretches so I added the slight crown from around steps where I left it flat

Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #27 · 5 mo ago

2

I do have a almost 1% slope on lower wall, then I raised it very slightly towards the middle like a crown. Not noticeable to look at it but you can feel walking across it a little bit. Either way a lot of paver cutting

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Hayduke

· #28 · 5 mo ago

Mitty87 said:
Either way a lot of paver cutting

Looks great!
But yeah, tons of cutting! Field pavers, soldier course, wall caps....
I burned myself out one year on a bunch of high volume cutting jobs like that. I always try to convince my clients now that straight lines and corners look better! Thankfully my lead guy seems to bizzarrely enjoy cutting pavers and caps....

Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #29 · 5 mo ago

Hayduke said:
Looks great!
But yeah, tons of cutting! Field pavers, soldier course, wall caps....
I burned myself out one year on a bunch of high volume cutting jobs like that. I always try to convince my clients now that straight lines and corners look better! Thankfully my lead guy seems to bizzarrely enjoy cutting pavers and caps....

well I think this job will be 350 man hours and had 35,000 for labour. Bought myself a 220 lb whacker and crappy rigid tile saw specifically in my material cost for this job too. I don’t have a good husq or IQ saw which I should get to speed it up.

I think about 25% of that time is table saw cuts, 1 at a time

Hayduke

· #30 · 5 mo ago

Mitty87 said:
well I think this job will be 350 man hours and had 35,000 for labour. Bought myself a 220 lb whacker and crappy rigid tile saw specifically in my material cost for this job too. I don’t have a good husq or IQ saw which I should get to speed it up.

I think about 25% of that time is table saw cuts, 1 at a time

Yeah I figured at least 1/4 of the time for cutting. Seems you covered that in your labor cost. I have tracked my hours for all my paver jobs going back several years. We are at about .33hrs per square foot on jobs that have a lot of cutting and other difficulties, but we can bang out an easy paver job with no cutting at closer to .15 hours per square foot for an average job of around 300 square feet.
What do you cut the wall caps with?
I swear i got lucky with a $300 10" wet tile/brick table saw I bought from Harbor Freight back in 2016 we use for pavers! Not sure if you have that store up there. Anyway, that saw has cut every job I have done in the last 7 years. Thousands and thousands of pavers I am sure, but the thing keeps cranking em out.
I have a 14" Stihl handheld for the wall caps with a Sawshoe attachment. Someone on this site turned me on to that attachment years ago when the Hardscape forum seemed to get more action. Used to rent a 14" wet table saw for wall caps, which often would trip the breaker. Borrowed a gas powered wet table saw for a job which was bulky, cumbersome and annoying. It's all handheld cutting now for the wall caps for us...

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Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #31 · 5 mo ago

The shoe is a good idea, I have 2 of those big saws but don't use very often anymore because I can't do free hand cuts without swerving. We don't have harbour freight but a couple other stores like that. The rigid saw is ok for 700 CAD, the blade lasted for 1000 square feet of cuts and 130 wall caps. Just barely goes through a cap. This job would probably have been closer to .33 hours per square foot if I had to do excavation. I had an excavation company that the homeowner paid and did not include the dig out in my quote, he paid separately for it.

knox gsl

· #32 · 5 mo ago

Hayduke said:
Yeah I figured at least 1/4 of the time for cutting. Seems you covered that in your labor cost. I have tracked my hours for all my paver jobs going back several years. We are at about .33hrs per square foot on jobs that have a lot of cutting and other difficulties, but we can bang out an easy paver job with no cutting at closer to .15 hours per square foot for an average job of around 300 square feet.
What do you cut the wall caps with?
I swear i got lucky with a $300 10" wet tile/brick table saw I bought from Harbor Freight back in 2016 we use for pavers! Not sure if you have that store up there. Anyway, that saw has cut every job I have done in the last 7 years. Thousands and thousands of pavers I am sure, but the thing keeps cranking em out.
I have a 14" Stihl handheld for the wall caps with a Sawshoe attachment. Someone on this site turned me on to that attachment years ago when the Hardscape forum seemed to get more action. Used to rent a 14" wet table saw for wall caps, which often would trip the breaker. Borrowed a gas powered wet table saw for a job which was bulky, cumbersome and annoying. It's all handheld cutting now for the wall caps for us...

I bought that same HF saw years ago and it still keeps going. It's done driveways, patios and a few bathroom remodels too. It's currently on its second water pump.

Reactions: 1

J. Baker

· #33 · 5 mo ago

I’m gonna have to look at that HF saw. Sounds like you guys have had good luck with them.

@Mitty87 Looks great!!

Reactions: 1

Hayduke

· #34 · 5 mo ago

Mitty87 said:
The shoe is a good idea, I have 2 of those big saws but don't use very often anymore because I can't do free hand cuts without swerving. We don't have harbour freight but a couple other stores like that. The rigid saw is ok for 700 CAD, the blade lasted for 1000 square feet of cuts and 130 wall caps. Just barely goes through a cap. This job would probably have been closer to .33 hours per square foot if I had to do excavation. I had an excavation company that the homeowner paid and did not include the dig out in my quote, he paid separately for it.

The 10 inch Harbor Freight saw will not cut through a full Allan Block cap. Turning the cap over to finish the cut usually turns out horribly. Honestly I really haven't done any cap cutting with the handheld Stihl and sawshoe. One job I just handed it to my masonry foreman and said this is how we are doing it now!
10 jobs later, he hasn't complained.
But if I were to land a bunch of big hardscape jobs this year, I might consider a 14 inch wet table saw and generator so I don't have to deal with breaking homeowners low amp circuits. The 14 inch would handle pavers and wall caps and some blocks.
So far no big hardscapes on the radar this year..unless I land this Allan Block wall job that is 265 feet long by 6 feet tall. Young couple just bought the house, waffling on the cost...I kind of want it but kinda don't...that is a long wall, most square feet I have ever done

Hayduke

· #35 · 5 mo ago

knox gsl said:
I bought that same HF saw years ago and it still keeps going. It's done driveways, patios and a few bathroom remodels too. It's currently on its second water pump.

Two things on the pump, cuz yeah, that is the first thing to go. First rather than put the pump in that little tray that collects all the brick slurry, stick it in a trash can full of clean water that you'll occasionally refill. That way you aren't running all that abrasive slurry thru the pump, but nice clean water.
Second, get rid of the pump altogether! We abandoned it years ago and just rigged up a hose connection straight to the water sprayer with a y on it. Sure you have to turn the hose on and off with each cut, but it really is less effort than dealing with a bad pump every few jobs. Nice thing is then we have a live hose right there to clean off the saw when it needs it.

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Hayduke

· #36 · 5 mo ago

J. Baker said:
I’m gonna have to look at that HF saw. Sounds like you guys have had good luck with them.

@Mitty87 Looks great!!

This is the one I bought, the Chicago Electric 10" Wet Tile/Brick saw. I don't see it on the Harbor Freight site, so maybe they stopped carrying it. Found it on Ebay.

www.ebay.com

Chicago Electric Power Tools 2.5HP 10 inch Industrial Tile/Brick Saw for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Chicago Electric Power Tools 2.5HP 10 inch Industrial Tile/Brick Saw at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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Wow it is now $600!!!! Still may be a good saw, I don't know.
Funny story, when I first bought that saw I was pretty green in hardscaping. I had been renting the same saw from my paver supplier and it always had a smooth rimmed diamond tile blade on it. So when I bought my saw, of course I bought a smooth rimmed blade to go with it.
Well, it was probably 800 cuts later that I discovered I needed to be using a segmented diamond blade. The difference in speed on pavers is like 10 to 1 no exaggeration ! I have to laugh at myself looking back on that. Too bad I wasn't on Lawnsite then and could have asked someone what blade to get.

Reactions: 3

Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #37 · 5 mo ago

So the tile blade that came with my rigid saw worked for the 130 caps and maybe 500 paver cuts, finally changed out for a masonry blade and it’s about double the thickness of the original blade.

the time blade cut pavers a lot quicker and more accurate, because it’s thinner. I prefer the tile blade

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Hayduke

· #38 · 5 mo ago

Mitty87 said:
So the tile blade that came with my rigid saw worked for the 130 caps and maybe 500 paver cuts, finally changed out for a masonry blade and it’s about double the thickness of the original blade.

the time blade cut pavers a lot quicker and more accurate, because it’s thinner. I prefer the tile blade View attachment 531533

Hmmm, so was the masonry blade segmented? And you preferred the smooth rim blade in the picture? Not what I would expect, but I don't know everything

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Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #39 · 5 mo ago

the masonry blade is segmented, but its also some crappy "exchange a blade" brand which I haven't used before, was only one available. It probably doesn't last as long, the tile blade, but I like how accurate it was. I can easily adjust for the wider masonry blade, but when I was fixing up my cuts and shaving off tiny pieces, it seemed to work well for that.

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Mitty87

Discussion Starter · #40 · 5 mo ago

So after a week of heavy rains - maybe an inch per day without a break. Also a king tide washed away part of their front yard.

thr lowest corner of my upper wall had water pooling infront.

built lowest block sitting about 4” above their drain tile - a solid 4” pvc. It comes out and goes under concrete.

I can see on their clean out on concrete patio the level is high and backed up, also a stream coming out the corner of the wall.

At least I noticed before I finished up but looks like I have to take apart 3 x 6 blocks and 4x3 paver area, dig out 3 yards of backfill, repair the pipe, hopefully that’s it, then rebuild.

probably cost me a week

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