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Concrete for hardscape paver edge/restraint?

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by Agape, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    Concrete edge restraint is one thing. (and I advise against it)

    The problem with *mortaring pavers* to concrete edge restraint is that if you're in a climate that has winter - sooner or later the mortar will freeze and the pavers will pop.

    Million dollar homes always have nice mortared brick and flagstone stoops, steps, porches, etc. And nearly every single one of them, sooner or later WILL have some brick or flagstone that pops loose during the winter. No, not the entire area, mostly just a few bricks or stones here and there.

    What happens is you get snow melt or rain on the mortared item. Water gets through the cracks, pores, etc. Gets between the paver and the mortar. It freezes. And then cracks or pops loose. Not a cool thing to have happen with an interlocking pavement. One day the pavers are fine. Come the end of March and Grandma is breaking her hip because the edge of the front walkway gave way.

    But with SnapEdge, you have piece of mind that you can install it and forget about it.

    Instead of Paver Pete spending 1 hr at the Techo Showcases (for the last 8 yrs) talking about door hangers - maybe he should be talking about the pros and cons of different edge restraints!
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  2. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    You're never gonna believe this, but I also have an entire topic dedicated to common spikes vs galvanized spikes!!!!!!

    Anything you ever wanna know - just do a search under my user name and you'll be on your way to greatness :)

  3. alldayrj

    alldayrj LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,793

    It's been my experience that freeze thaw cycles will pop brick and mortar as well as push out snap edge with little nails trying to hold an entire patio together. Obviously both methods are used and can be debated until we're blue in the face. Nothing lasts forever anyway, pick one and run with it
  4. Agape

    Agape LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,644

    Ok, that may be a bit anal (i'll check it out though;))

    RJ: are you referring to the nine inch nails as "little nails"? Or are you referring to something else?
  5. Agape

    Agape LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,644

    It seems to me that something that is installed with relief seams to accommodate its natural tendency to crack, would be problematic at best when installed thinly with or without these reliefs wich is why i asked the question.

    Also, how do you repair the broken concrete? I know how i'd replace snap edging.
  6. alldayrj

    alldayrj LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,793

    Yes they are little. I could push a 9" nail into the ground with one hand, and also pull it out
    Posted via Mobile Device
  7. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    I don't think we can say "both methods are used". I've never heard of anyone else mortaring pavers to a concrete edge restraint.

    Here in MD, using 10" gal spikes we have never had one spike come up. In 2010 we had some deep freezing take place.

    Maybe our winters are not as harsh here, I dunno.

    Never have we had to go back to a job for a routine 10 yr snap edge restraint replacement. But we have replaced concrete restraint. Hard to argue the facts :)

    Also, many contractors do not use SnapEdge brand of restraint. But they should, in my opinion.

    No "arguing" on my end. One thing about what I post on lawnsite is I always back my posts up with facts, i get into detail and offer explanations. and I keep it real. Never do I post anything derived merely from hearsay and or speculation.

    Also, we're not sure what is meant by "little nails"?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  8. alldayrj

    alldayrj LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,793

    I think we can. 50% of contractors here pour a slab and mortar the border bricks down. The rest cut grass 5 other days a week and use plastic edging.
    Posted via Mobile Device
  9. Stillwater

    Stillwater LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,889

    I'm wondering if I should jump in this thred with my opinion.
    Posted via Mobile Device
  10. locallawncare.ca

    locallawncare.ca LawnSite Senior Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 756

    I'm not a hardscaper, but I always see the plastic edging lifting up out of the ground, then the nails become exposed and it just looks like garbage. I hate seeing an edge of plastic along the grass, plus it seems the plastic doesn't have much holding power. I see it at many houses. I would think concrete would hold fairly well, especially if a wet mix was used and embedded into the screening/aggregate. Also I thought mortar was for brick joints and not for on the ground/earth, I feel like a high quality concrete would be much better, just thinking aloud here.

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