Corn Glutten? Kinda useless?

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by JFGauvreau, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. JFGauvreau

    JFGauvreau LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,298

    Well here in Ontario, Canada we are still under the herbicide and pesticide bans, so the good old Killex is no longer available. Lawn Care companies and home owners are struggling. The organic stuff just doesn't work, it seems to kill and actually turn the dandelions purple for a couple days, but the product is not strong enough to kill the roots, so they grow back up. Also seems like the dandelions have "evolve" over time and become more immune to products, drought weather, poor soils, rich soils, they just grow everywhere and anytime!

    Even the biggest franchise in Canada (won't mentioned the name) that actually "Guaranteed" to remove weeds on their adds are totally useless. I see their little lawn signs everywhere on lawns and all of them are still full of dandelions.

    Anyways last year was a total drought season from early Jully till the fall. And every single home owner was to cheap to pay the water bill so all of their lawns burnt up. This winter was very harsh, huge amount of snow, and the spring is almost a month late compared to last year, the only lawns that will have a advantage is the one with a good soil and rich in KGB.

    Anyways this product from Scott's has a 10% natural organic fertilizer (corn glutten) that works as a pre-emergent weed killer. But it takes 4-6 weeks to take effect. So the question is, why do home owners buy them? Do they know know how it works?

    Weeds don't take long to grow, in a couple of weeks once the warmer weather shows up, weeds will be growing everywhere.

    Right now it is April 5, If you put down your corn gluten now, it would "technically" have effect from late April to the 2nd week of May.

    I'm predicting to see warmer weather and weeds growing about the 2nd or 3rd week in April, maybe even the 4th. So by then the corn gluten is still to slow to take effect.

    Maybe I'm wrong but whats the benefit of the corn gluten if every season the weeds grow faster then the corn gluten to take effect, fall applications maybe?
  2. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    CornGlutenMeal is so full of contradictory logical absurdities that it is difficult to know what its promoters are even thinking... If they are indeed thinking at all...

    Most of the dandelions that you are going to see this Spring have already germinated last Fall... Even if CGM was an effective pre-m it would be useless at this point...

    BTW,,, the 6 week claim for the pre-m in CGM,,, is the most outrageously false claim I've heard to date... :)
  3. JFGauvreau

    JFGauvreau LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,298

    Thanks for the input, care to elaborate a bit more?

    Have you been using CGM in the past? and about the 6 weeks claim, is it even longer?

    My guess then would be to put it down so it would have effect once the dandelions starts to drop the seeds? But not every dandelions will bloom the same day or week. And I guess the CGM is very unreliable, timing wise, so that will be difficult.

    It's funny to see how many people buy those bags at 30$ each in the middle of June.. I don't think they are informed and understand the meaning of pre-emergent.
  4. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Buying in the middle of June makes perfect sense in the the world of CGM as pre-m... It has always been claimed that CGM will kill/stop 80% of the weed seeds after a 2 year buildup of the pre-m in the soil...

    2 years to reach nominal effectiveness based on cumulative saturations...

    The question that makes no sense in this scenario is not only "WHY??? or REALLY???" but also "WHEN" do I overseed???
    It is the dumbest thing in the world and all the attackers are never able to address the question of overseeding ,,, EVER,,, but resort to namecalling and bullying and demonizing anyone who "Rubs 2 ideas together to form a concept"...
    CGM is a bigger rip-off than Root inhibitor during Spring thaw...

    If they're going to prove anything,,, make them prove everything, becuz you can't have your cake and eat it too...

    If you need me to elaborate more,,, just say so,,, and I'll comminicate what I REALLY think about it.... :)
  5. JFGauvreau

    JFGauvreau LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,298

    I think I will not be doing any over seeding or slit seeding this year. On existing lawns that already contain 50% weeds I don't think it will have any effect. But replacing your normal fertilizers treatments by CGM could help I supposed, on the long term plan like you mentioned of 2 years. An also I believe CGM has 10% nitrogen in it. Not much but can help.

    By putting down CGM every year, I will eliminate the seeds that later on become weeds, but for the existing dandelions, still no cure for them, since they are perennials. But for other types of weeds that spread by rhizomes and not by seeds, CGM is totally useless for those case.

    I just wish they would bring back the Killex, 2 sprays applications and everything is dead. Just ban the stupid people that don't know how to use it. There is WAY more pollution and dangerous stuff happening in this world compared to a few pesticides
  6. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Pull a weed and plant some seed in its place... the dandelions will have to be pulled and the seeds coming in will never be stopped by CGM, even at the maximum effectiveness of 80%...
    Your only chance is to get more grass to grow in place of the 50% weeds... look at CGM as a fertilizer with huge soil building potential and then you have a reason to use it... by the way it sounds,,, you're looking at making some of the greenest weeds in town...
  7. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,808

    Taller ht of cut, and higher rates of nitrogen may help. Thicker grass is more weed resistant.
    Perhaps also suggest to customers to over seed or switch to a more dense premium Kentucky bluegrass.
    Naturally allowing the lawn to become thin or develop bare patches allows dandelions to increase as the seed is carried on the wind. Remember dandelion seed takes hold in late summer or fall. The plant has to achieve about 4 months old, and 6 inches in diameter to be strong enough to put up a blossom by the following spring.
    Its possible that the organic iron compounds applied in fall would kill the new young dandelions easily...the dandelions in spring.

    Meanwhile, hand out a receipe for dandelion wine and take heart...the yellow flowers are usually gone after two mowings.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  8. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,335

  9. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Great info , great succuss story , great research on the taxpayers' dime...

    They can't even get their manmade artificial CGM to function... gullible plumbers from CA talk stupid and this is the evidence that everybody else has it wrong... True believers are true @--- or maybe FOOLS is a better word...

    I grow weary of this stupid Green foolishness and the anti-logic of brainless parrots that can't analyse what they're reading... CGM works!!! CGM works!!! the research says so!!!! :laugh:...
  10. JFGauvreau

    JFGauvreau LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,298

    I totally agree with what you are saying. KBG is probably the best type of turf around here for cool season grass but if I had a picture from last year I would show you, all the lawns on the streets where yellow.

    When you reach a point that the lawn is covered by more then 50% of weeds it is very hard with no good product to kill the weeds. You let the grass grow higher and thicker, dandelions are already higher then the grass..
    Over-seeding when the grass is 4" in height.. not enough sunlight for seeds.

    Thanks for your input and the link :) Appreciated

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