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Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by BostonBull, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. NattyLawn

    NattyLawn LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,643

    I didn't see either of these. You can blanket or spot treat. Livingsoils spots, and I blanket one app, then go back and spot treat a second time.

    It's a weed and feed, with a 14-0-5 and 5-0-3 formulations. Imo, the lawn doesn't grow real fast and you can't see any difference in the treated areas excpet the weeds dying.

    For pricing, you can go here and download the catalog. I believe the 2006 prices are still current. As far as shipping, I don't know what the prices are. We get the best shipping prices in the country, and usually pick them up and ship ourselves.

  2. wallzwallz

    wallzwallz LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 361

    Thank you very much NattyLawns.
  3. ALC-GregH

    ALC-GregH LawnSite Fanatic
    from PA
    Messages: 7,051

    I have crabgrass taking over my lawn from last year. I bought a bottle of MSMA to apply in hopes that it will stop it from growing. My questions are, when should I apply it? Can I over seed with fescue after it's applied? Will it kill the seeds I put down for over seeding? I had read that it should be put down early before the crabgrass seedlings germinate and start to grow. I don't want to mess up the lawn and waste money on over seeding my lawn if it will just prevent the seed I put down from growing. The bottle said something like you need to wait 3 months before you can over seed. Is this correct? If so, How can I apply it and get seed to grow? I don't have a pesticide license and I'm not really interested in getting it to be honest. I just want my lawn to be rid of the crabgrass and seed it with tall fescue. HELP....
  4. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    Pre-emergents and seeding do not mix. It is an either/or proposition.
    If you need to seed, you should have done it in the fall in order to allow the turf to sufficiently mature. You can seed now, then apply, but by the time the turf is mature enough to handle a pre-emergent application it will probably be too late to effectively control crab grass.

    Also ... why MSMA? There are better chemicals that have less potential for environmental damage. Perhaps something with Dithiopyr would be better here if you are not going use CGM.

    Here is a trial done on fescue using various chemicals for pre-emergent weed control applied 3 weeks after seeding the fescue ... maybe it will help you make the appropriate decision.

  5. bicmudpuppy

    bicmudpuppy LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,781

    This is the nightmare I did NOT want to hear about. Soil temps were 60+ Monday PM. They say I might see 4" of accumulation by Sat. I have 15 gallons of Pendi left over from "before me" that didn't get applied last year. I'm going to put it down, if for no other reason than I don't want to have to figure out how to get rid of it later! The lower rate is 3.1pts/A I think. I have to read the label again. So, 1 gallon is 5 A. I have enough to almost do the entire property, except I can't spray it on the greens, won't spray it on the tees, and have some "project" areas I'm going to seed. I may have enough to do the late May/early June split app on most of the course. Now, if I'm just not to late when the snow melts :(

    On a happier note, I'm almost assured of water in the irrigation ditch to feed my pond by lunch tomorrow. I can start watering something besides greens! That means I can start seeding. Apply the milorganite I squirreled away last fall to go with the seed, and hit everything with a shot or two of molasses as well!
  6. ALC-GregH

    ALC-GregH LawnSite Fanatic
    from PA
    Messages: 7,051

    Thanks for the reply Kiril. In another thread someone said to apply the MSMA in June after the CG is growing. So I should be able to over seed in the next week or so and then wait until end of May into June to put the MSMA down. The reason I got this stuff is a guy on here last fall said it's very good on CG but I'd be wasting my time applying in the fall. I'll use it up (small bottle) to get rid of it. I'm mainly wanting to over seed to get the lawn thicker with Fescue. Lots of CG waiting to grow.
  7. Dchall_San_Antonio

    Dchall_San_Antonio LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 327

    If I understand this you are only getting crabgrass where the grass does not grow. That makes sense but why does the grass not grow? What is causing the compaction? And I realize this message is from last year, but it might help someone else.

    The easy way for the individual home owner to keep crabgrass out is proper cultural practices. Usually the commercial lawn maintenance people do not control home owner watering. If the lawn is watered once a day for 10 minutes it is going to sprout every seed on the soil. It is better for weed control to limit watering to every other week for most of the year and weekly for the hottest parts of summer. Of course you have to water for longer than 10 minutes. Soil type and humidity/evaporation should be considered when adjusting a watering schedule, but the objective is to allow the surface of the soil to completely dry out between irrigations. This will prevent almost all seeds from sprouting. The other cultural aspect is mowing at the tallest end of the spectrum for the grass. For most grasses that means mowing at 4 inches high. Once all the grass gets that tall, it looks extremely plush. The newer varieties of KBG perform better when mowed at 3 inches high so that is one exception. Bentgrass, bermuda, centipede, and some zoysias do better (more dense) when mowed at 1 inch or lower. These are the other exceptions to mowing tall. Whether mowing height adjustments present issues for the professional I do not know. For the conscientious professional with properly maintained equipment I would think it would not be a huge issue. But to summarize the best way to keep crabgrass out is to have grass growing dense and tall. The OP does not have that.

    At the same time that Crabgrass Alert product came on the market there was some announcement out of Florida that simple baking soda worked against crabgrass. It may not be a coincidence that Crabgrass Alert contains baking soda. The suggestion from Florida was to put baking soda into a sock, wet the crabgrass leaves with a soapy water solution (crabgrass blades are hydrophobic otherwise), and bang the sock against your hand to allow only baking soda dust to fall from the sock. The point of that is to not over apply the dust. Someone on another forum wrote in to describe his crabgrass as having turned black almost overnight and dead and gone in 4 days. Supposedly that was in a St Augustine lawn with no harm done to the surrounding grasses. That was several years ago and the last I have read on the topic. Otherwise I have heard and read good things about Crabgrass Alert.

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