Customer refused LED's

Discussion in 'Landscape Lighting' started by jlouki01, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. jlouki01

    jlouki01 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 453

    Had a job we have been working on for the last couple of months refuse some LEDS.

    We wanted to use some LED hardscape lights from Kichler without the hardscape mount as under railing mounted. Customer refused them because of the light output color.

    I agreed they were really white. When I tested some before hand the light seemed a little more yellow and warm. Once installed he was not happy with them at all.

    Back to the drawing board I guess.
  2. Illumicare

    Illumicare Inactive
    Messages: 148

    Not all LED fixtures or lamps are 'equal'. This is where you need to get the full specifications, photometrics and spectral analysis information from the manufacturer in order to choose the right product that will offer you the output, colour and effect you are looking for. All too often LED products are labeled simply as "warm white". Unfortunately one company's 'warm white' is considerably different than another company's. This becomes particularly problematic when you start mixing LED fixtures from different manufacturers into one lighting system. 3000K here, 3300K there and a couple of 4000K in the wrong place and you quickly have a rather strange looking system.

    Understanding the correlated color temperature (CCT) is critical in most applications. If you are looking for an LED product that will emulate the warm glow of an incandescent or xenon lamp, you will need to find something in around 2700K. If you want to emulate the colour of a quality halogen lamp, then 3000K is what you need. The difference of just 300k is noticeable to most people, and those with a critical eye can generally see slight variances of 100K to 200K

    Your situation might lend itself well to picking the appropriate 'traditional' fixtures and then relying upon LED lamps rather than looking to integrated LED fixtures for a solution. At least with traditional fixtures you can change lamp intensities and colour temperatures to suit the client's tastes. As more LED lamps become available in a wider array of intensities and colour temperatures, you will be able to convert the entire system to LED and keep a single cohesive look across the entire system.
  3. Jb3NH

    Jb3NH LawnSite Member
    Messages: 197

    what sort of technical information is available with your led fixtures? wattage? lens angle? and or wavelength? I guess if you could pile that all together then with a similar bin all lights would look about right, then mixing and matching products shouldn't be a problem?
  4. Illumicare

    Illumicare Inactive
    Messages: 148

    Illumicare does not offer any type of LED fixtures. We design, engineer, manufacture and distribute a line of LED lamps that have been developed specificially for low voltage landscape lighting applications.

    You can download our MR16 lamp specifications here: and you can find our miniature lamp specifications here:

    Our specification sheets will give you a good idea of the type of information you should be looking for in order to make informed decisions about LED products.

    If you have any specific application or technical questions, please do not hesitate to contact us directly.

  5. Jb3NH

    Jb3NH LawnSite Member
    Messages: 197

    Excellent, since my 6th grade science fair i've been interested in LEDs (nasa has been doing some groundbreaking stuff.. such as healing bone faster with specific light wavelengths) They've come a long way, and my last comment may have not applied specifically to this particular application.

    Thanks for the info
  6. jlouki01

    jlouki01 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 453

    These were pretty white.. i wouldn't go as far as saying warm either. None the less I was pretty excited to install them only to be shot down..
  7. sprinkler guy

    sprinkler guy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 223


    I found this thread doing a search, looking for a solution to the same problem you had when you posted this thread. I've used the 15745 before, with good results. After looking at some of the previous jobs, I found that all of the stone or hardscape the fixtures were near was a dark color, which helped mute the bright white of the LEDs. The application I'm struggling with is a very light stone. The lights are placed under the edge of several of the steps. The LEDs show as very bright white dots on the surface. Kichler says they are not dimmable. I was going to look into creating a glass filter, maybe a yellow or amber color, frosted, or etched to create a spread effect. I have (16) installed, and the rest of the job is lost in this clients frustration with the "runway lights".

    What did you ultimately do?
  8. Lite4

    Lite4 LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,187

    I used kichlers hardscape lights once, but never again. Way too way and the light is not focused so you see the bright spots from each LED on the stone, tacky. Had a bad experience with kichler LEDs last week too. The more I see them the less I like them.
  9. indylights

    indylights LawnSite Member
    Messages: 179

    Like Tim, I used the Kichler hardscape lights once, key word being once. All you see is a bunch of dots, and it's even worse if the material is wet. Cast hardscape lights give really good color and beam spread, and I'm sure some other guys can recommend some other brands as well.

    Scott Maloney
    Sunflower Landscapes
  10. S&MLL

    S&MLL LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 751

    Just pull it off a tad bit and the dots go away. Kichler wall light is the best bang for buck imho. Integral leds fixture price is a joke.
    Posted via Mobile Device

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