Dallas Texas Perennial Rye

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by EagleLandscape, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. EagleLandscape

    EagleLandscape LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Garland, Texas
    Messages: 4,350

    I want to better my knowledge on the application of overseeing with winter rye.

    I have noticed that the method we are using, isnt producing a quick establishing turf, and has taken an additional month to look like how the other professional companies are applying it.

    Our method.

    Scalp the lawn, as close as possible. Bag clippings, blow clippings off with blower when needed.

    Apply 21-0-0 after lawn has been cleaned.

    apply perennial rye at a rate of 10 lbs per 1000 sq ft. 50 lb bag over 5k sq ft.

    2 months later or so after seed has been established, and we've cut it a few times, we apply a 18-24-12 fert with Pre M. month or two later we hit it again with a 21-0-0 and it looks great. just had a hard time getting it to come up this fall.

    water in 4 minutes a run time, 3-4 times a day.

    most companies here do it while it is still quite warm in september.

    please dump your knowledge on what I am missing, or a better way to do it.

    a way to scarify the soil would be awesome, but seems like an expensive practice.

    thanks for your help.
  2. Hoots

    Hoots LawnSite Senior Member
    from DFW
    Messages: 328

    I don't see a problem with your method. The only thing I would do different is the timing of the starter 18-24-12. I do that 1 week after seeding.(sometimes the same day as seeding)

    I normally put my rye down the first week of October. It's about the same as mid September (sometimes cooler).

    I also do not mow 14 days from application AND check to see if the roots come up with the plant when you pull on them. If the soil is too wet AND you mow AND the blades are not sharp you will pull up most of the newly germinated plants.(sorry a lot of and)

    There shouldn't be a problem (other than starter fert timing) with your germination and establishment from what I can tell.

    The grass also needs to get into the multiple leaf stage.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  3. EagleLandscape

    EagleLandscape LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Garland, Texas
    Messages: 4,350

    yes, we try to get in and mow as quickly as we can, to promote tillering. but its coming up spare. the 18-24-12 has a pre emergent in it, so i want to wait for the seed to set, so I dont kill what i seeded.

    the 21-0-0 is applied hours before we seed, that way we can seed over it, and not the other way around (stepping on seed).

    maybe the soil was just super poor condition at this one site, but it doesnt look too hot.
  4. Hoots

    Hoots LawnSite Senior Member
    from DFW
    Messages: 328

    Soil test in a few weeks to see where all the levels are in the soil. Maybe a crazy pH affecting you. That is my first guess.
  5. Try using a starter without the pre m when you seed. Seems like you need the higher Phosphorus the starter fert has to get those roots down. I would hit it with N in 4-6 weeks.
    Also, lower temps affect speed of germination so that could have been a factor. Just my opinion.
    BTW I over-seeded here in Sacto on my little lawn on 11/5/08 with perennial rye/fescue/blue mix. It is coming along just fine but I know if I started in October it would have been faster germination. Temps now in the low 60s. Still no frost!

  6. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    jwingfield2k, how many acres do you do this on? That is a lot of seed you put down, 10 lbs per 1000 should be a thick mat of turf after germination.

    There are 2 ways to help the process along, priming the seed or pre-germination. It depends on how you apply to which course is better. If you are using a hydroseeder then pregerminate, if you are using a spreader priming or bio-priming is the way to go. to pregerminate just put the bags in water for 48 hours pull them out and toss in the hydroseeder....BANG instant turf

    priming seed is typically a 12 hours cycle of putting the seed in water and then letting it rest out of the water for 12 hours. with rye you can do this twice in a 48 hour period. When you pull it out the second time you lay it out on a concrete pad and let it dry out so that you can use it in the spreader. BANG almost instant turf, 3 days typically

    Bio priming is adding beneficial microbes to the water like mycorrhizae or bacillus, trichoderma strains that fight typical disease from seedlings like damping off and the like. You still prime in the same manner
  7. turfcobob

    turfcobob LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 878

    Just how are you applying the seed? Are you ripping through the thatch or organic matter on top so the seeds can get seed / soil contact? If you are just putting the seed on the surface you are wasting a ton of seed that will not become a plant. Seeds need that soil contact to get established.
  8. EagleLandscape

    EagleLandscape LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Garland, Texas
    Messages: 4,350

    I think my problem on this one site was little soil to seed contact. As recommended by a highly respected person on this site, i might invest in a verticut/ machine to remove and disturb some matted down thatch. i agree on thestarter fertilizer, i messed that one up big time and didnt even realize it.

    there is always next year.

    this one site was 2 acres, but its townhomes, setup apartment style. also have a commercial deal where its 1.5 acres, and we mowed it with the ZTR at 1" and it looks fine. the apartment job we had to do with 21" mower, and just couldnt get it close enough. 6hp 21" push mowers are what we run. the verticut should help out for next year.
  9. turfcobob

    turfcobob LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 878

    A verticut is an excellent idea. Get the seed down to the soil. Plus it takes less seed when you get a higher count on germination. You can do it two ways. for normal thatch say up to a half inch. First get your seed down then go over it with a verticut cutting all the way into the soil about a quarter inch. This will stir the seed and debris together and when it gets water the seed will move down into the slits.

    For heavier thatch say over a half inch. Remove some of the thatch by going over the lawn and picking up the thatch with a bagging mower. Then do the seeding pro cedure above.
  10. EagleLandscape

    EagleLandscape LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Garland, Texas
    Messages: 4,350

    the one place didnt have germination for like a whole week.

    maybe it was also bad seed...

    i bought last years seed and last years price, right before the price hike. i kept it dry, so i didnt think i would have a problem.

    thoughts? got it from lesco

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