Sean, how about having a little fun segment added. It would be a (no prize other than bragging rights) Design Contest thread open to anyone in that particular zone. A Sticky would be added with list of commonly used items and their costs: IE BB shrubs $30, 1 gal perennials$7, all trees $150, patios/walkways any type $20 sq/ft, water features $20 sq/foot (includes all rock), fencing/walls any type $25 face/ft, etc etc. Factors like topsoil, tool rental, LABOR, ferts, would not apply. Each contest would be open for say 3 months, and would have a title like what customers would ask for (actually you could have us submit ideas from what we have been asked to do): IE Complete front yard redo, Budget 10k, 40' D x 80' W working space, 4' town side walk 6' from street. Paved driveway 15' W x 40' D located 10' from right hand side. Standard 2 story colonial with attached garage. Jpeg drawings would be submitted as a post in the thread titled Complete Yard Redo, zone 5-6. Along with materials list with names and costs. At the end of the 3 months posting would be locked out and a new thread would open for voting. Each voter can only vote once and must put the designers name in the title (to make it easy to tally up the votes) Voting would be open for 1 month. The cool thing is we all would benifit by seeing how others takle similar jobs.