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Detaching Lawn

9K views 38 replies 8 participants last post by  Smallaxe 
#1 ·
How often should one detach there lawn?

Should one do it every year?

I detached a lawn yesterday and the last time it was done was 5 years ago. The person catches the grass each time they mow.
 
#27 ·
Taking dead grass and similar organic materials out of the turf is like stripping paint off the car so it holds wax better...
you seed will do much better in dead grass clippings than on bare soil,,, therefore bagging when mowing and dethatching and removing that asset is an error...
 
#28 ·
Taking dead grass and similar organic materials out of the turf is like stripping paint off the car so it holds wax better...
you seed will do much better in dead grass clippings than on bare soil,,, therefore bagging when mowing and dethatching and removing that asset is an error...
This is not entirely true. What if a lawn had never been de-thatched? Are you going to make a 'trial' pass with the slit seeder and wind up pulling up excessive thatch to the point it is not failing to allow irrigation through? That partially decayed organic mat does a horrible job at retaining water. When the thatch layer is excessive, it should be bagged. When you make your seeding passes, any extra thatch can be left where it is.

I mulch mow my lawn 100% of the time. The only time I will ever bag is when I'm preparing to slice seed.
 
#29 ·
This thread is irking me beyond....... words.I don't know where to even start.

Thatch to me means: "partially decayed organic mat does a horrible job at retaining water".

Anything below this should be soil.

Above it you have your grass, and dying/dead crowns.

Its the dying dead crowns that look like the color of wood that I would leave for all the benefits that smallaxe has stated.

That thatch layer could be bad for seed if it is too thick because when the seed roots into it it does not offer the same protection that soil will. Unprotected roots will die in a short time and so will all grass you just seeded.

Measure the thatch and 1/2" or less is fine.

The OP asked how often to de-thatch. Answer is: As often as necessary to maintain a healthy level of thatch.

I have too customers side by side:

first guy has 1/2" of thatch, Lawn looks good all season.

Second guy has no measurable thatch, lawn looks great in the spring but then I am skipping mows half way through the season because he has no thatch the soil has no protection to the sun.

Both house are mowed the exact same day by the same mower by the same guy guy using the same fertilizer.

Another guy a few blocks away has alot of thatch, 2" and although his lawn looks good all year from the road, a birds eye view tells a different story. There are many areas where there are complete dead spots. Dig below the thatch and soil is bone dry.

So am I right about what thatch is?
 
#30 ·
I still waiting on someone to ask why anyone would want to "detach" a lawn anyway.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#32 ·
This thread is irking me beyond....... words.I don't know where to even start. ...

... So am I right about what thatch is?
I'm not sure what your definition of thatch is... If it means the living and dead roots and stems then you may have it... the URL that was put up on page 1 is right on, for professional discussions...
 
#33 ·
I'm with Smallaxe on this one. (although we disagree on aeration. I feel it should be done yearly for multiple reasons)

Per the Ohio State University Extension. (http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/4000/4008.html)

... For many years, dethatching was recommended as a way to remove the thatch layer. This method physically removes the thatch and is most effective if the existing layer is less than 0.50 inch in depth. ... Even though a considerable volume of material is pulled to the surface, these attachments usually have little impact on the total quantity of plant debris in the thatch layer. Some damage to the desirable turfgrass should be anticipated with these attachments and, therefore, should only be used in the spring and/or fall during periods of favorable growing conditions.

The last option, which research has shown to be the best approach to thatch control, is core aerification. ... This soil addition to the thatch layer will improve the environment in this area resulting in increased microbial activity and thatch breakdown."
I kept part of the page, dealing with de-thatching... note that these guys say that it works on thatch under .5" in depth... please note also it is talking about thatch not dead grass that sits on the top of the soil...

Also,,, please note the use of the word "damage" in reference to the desireable turfgrass... other dot edu urls discuss this as being quite severe for little or no real benefit...
Afterall, 1/2 inch of living thatch is just fine so why dethatch at that depth,,, when the damage is there and aeration is the actual solution...

Professional LCOs should be able to reference this article and know in-depth what it is talking about,,, yet we still have so-called professionals discussing 'apples as oranges and vice-versa'...

Did anyone who read the article notice that dead grass was never once referred to as thatch???
 
#34 ·
I was just trying to help cagengineer out here.
I do know why you De-thatch your lawn, some people have no ideal what you are doing or why you are ding that.

I have neighbors that has never do it and they have lived there for 20 + years and thank that I am nuts for tearing up my lawn so they think I am.
 
#35 ·
I was just trying to help cagengineer out here.
I do know why you De-thatch your lawn, some people have no ideal what you are doing or why you are ding that.

I have neighbors that has never do it and they have lived there for 20 + years and thank that I am nuts for tearing up my lawn so they think I am.
So why do you tear up your lawn???
 
#36 ·
When you use a spit seeder what do you think it will do?

You are going to bring up there thatch or dead grass right?

Also you will be putting down grass seed.

You ask why am I tearing up my lawn ask the neighbors that have NO IDEAL what you are doing. After 20 + years they have no ideal how to care for their lawn. No fertilizer, no de-thatching, no aerification. They call their lawn grass, but it is all weeds and crab grass. The cut it as short as they can.

Now why does my neighbors say I am tearing up my lawn?
 
#38 ·
Seems like we should also be distinguishing between the thatch layer, and the top of the root/soil zone. I encounter problems with the latter quite frequently on lawns that have been previously sodded and then died. This layer of dead sod has a lot of lignin, so it is not going to break down biologically. I rarely remove it entirely, but I find I have to chop it up/core aerate it pretty good. Otherwise, the seed has a hard time penetrating it with the new root, and once it germinates it just sits on top, and eventually dies. This dead root zone is not like the slimy/rubbery living thatch layer, that I often find in conjunction with fungus problems. Is the better advice simply to remove the dead sod, or should I just break as I have been doing. I have to confess, I have had problems and success with both methods, but I'm not sure I have figured out the pattern. The state Ag sites I have consulted are more often talking about the thatch layer, which can be successfully dealt with via aeration/slit seeding. What to do with the root zone is less clear to me.
 
#39 ·
Maynard, you hit on one of the characteristics of living thatch, i.e. lignin... this was even brought up in the article that was posted at the page 1...
Most sod that we see around here is actually a thatch layer cut off the field and contains little or no soil whatsoever... so if the sod dies you have a tightly bound mat of lignin string material(roots and stems) left behind...

IMO,,, since we know what causes living thatch, we should just switch over to practices that cause the existing roots to grow down into the soil and eventually the thatch layer will deteriorate to the point of allowing water and nutrients to penetrate into the soil...

Of course the first step is to acknowledge what lignin thatch is and how it differs from what is mistakenly called thatch, which is composed of simple carbohydrates such as grass clippings...

An interesting side note about digesting lignin, is the idea of using Soybean Meal to build a population of microbes capable of breaking down lignin at a higher rate of speed... this also feeds lawns in 2 different ways making the synferts unnecessary during this period...

People think it is expensive, but only if they attempt 4-6 unnecessary applications in the season... :)
 
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