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I don't think they are anywhere in the states Squizzy. I only wish, it would have saved some welding:):) What's cool and fun is all the sales people from Cat have come out to see this thing work. Even had a corporate hot shot on a job watching it reach up a 2-1 slope while still planted on the flat ground. You could adapt one to your Kubota and basically do the same thing I would assume. Much more versatile than on a skid steer.
 
It must be nice that your ground is soft enough you can dig with a trencher :laugh:

The one problem I could see with a trencher on a excavator is it could pull you over when you have the boom stretched out and the trencher bites into something hard and keeps pulling the machine onto its nose.

Its good to hear your spending more money Squizzy pretty soon you will be buying a 16 tonne size machine along with a tandem axle tipper for the bigger jobs :D
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Bill, as far as I know Digga are only in Aus and I agree, the small trencher on ex will be more adaptable than the skid..its just I have a big job coming up with miles to do at 3'. BTW, Cat must ahve looked closley because they offer one for 301.8C we have ordered, just waiting on a price.

GR - The 161 will get traded on a 308CR and we will buy a 304 in the next 2 years...its only money.
 
A trencher on a mini ex would eliminate alot of the problems that you get with the trencher on the skid steer.

Does the mini ex have the hydraulic flow to power the trencher and crawl backwards aswell.

Also wondering how the vibrations will effect the bushes etc on the digger, as it has to create alot more force on the end of the digger arm.
I know that the trencher I have shakes the silly out of me in my 553, although our ground is extremely rocky.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
G,day Will, I don't think a trencher could be any worse than a rock breaker.

The 301.8 is marginal for hydraulic flow on the aux circuit so its fairly important we get the right size trencher. Thats also why Bill has adapted the Dingo one to his Ex.
 
I was talking with a Komatsu guy today he said Caterpillar is doing just like I thought they are doing they are making so much sales in the oil fields they are not even bothering with the small guy anymore they don't make the money off the small guy.

The Komatsu guy says thats good for them their sales have increased by allot I can see that there is more Komatsu excavators in this area. The service reps are in the area and they have two resident mechanics in the area. He also said Komatsu is getting more contracts to supply gravel mines with equipment.

I looks like Komatsu is taking over the excavator market they actually want to deal with the small guy where Cats attitude is go away.

I asked him why Cat seems to be more popular down in the US he says its the "American Made Mentality" if its not made in the US its no good.
 
Gravel Rat said:
I was talking with a Komatsu guy today he said Caterpillar is doing just like I thought they are doing they are making so much sales in the oil fields they are not even bothering with the small guy anymore they don't make the money off the small guy.

The Komatsu guy says thats good for them their sales have increased by allot I can see that there is more Komatsu excavators in this area. The service reps are in the area and they have two resident mechanics in the area. He also said Komatsu is getting more contracts to supply gravel mines with equipment.

I looks like Komatsu is taking over the excavator market they actually want to deal with the small guy where Cats attitude is go away.

I asked him why Cat seems to be more popular down in the US he says its the "American Made Mentality" if its not made in the US its no good.
What you expect a Komatsu guy to say???? sorry I disagree...the cat saleman has been over to my house three times the last 6 weeks pricing mini excavators and offering his help...the Takeuchi guy was dumber than a box of rocks and tried to rake me over the coals on pricing. my cat MTL wouldn't start on day last month and the service truck was here in 30 minutes...service sells...not always paint color.
 
Gravel Rat:

When you post this type of stuff, make sure you add the line, "In my area" because in 7 countries I have worked, and 15 United States, your statement could not be farther from reality.

It amazes me that any time I have ever needed Cat service they considered waiting an hour fr the truck too long. In contrast, anyone in our area who uses Bobcat, Komatsu, New Holland, or Kubota is frequently told the service truck can't get to them for a day or so. One rental place we use has over 100 bobcats and is told they have to wait a day....That's unacceptable in my book for ANYONE to say that.

I've said it before. I find it very hard to believe that Cat would neglect an area where machines can be sold. Dealer since the 30's or not, the corporate still looks at numbers and takes into account the feedback people in that area give for what is being sold. That said, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume Cat does not want small sales in your area. That's why you need to make it clear, this is in your area.
 
Cat doesn't want to send a service man out to a small guy it costs too much money its why they want you to truck your machine to them. As for Cat salesman coming around I doubt it if they are not going to sell you a 500,000 dollar piece of equipment forget it.

I have seen more of the Komatsu reps around this area than I do of some of my familly.

A landscaper buys a 60,000 dollar excavator every 4-5 years a large gravel mine or oil fields buys a 500,000 to 1.5 million dollar excavator every 2 years so why would Cat want to pizz around with a low profit landscaper.

Like the Komatsu guy said Cat makes some machines better but excavators are not one of them.

You look at the Alberta Oil sands thats where Cat makes money they supply mass excavators, haul trucks etc. Caterpillar probably makes more money selling heavy equipment to the Alberta oil sands than all the Cat mini excavators sold in the US.
 
Granted one mass excavator equals many mini excavators in gross dollars. However the actual profit margin on those sales is another matter. If it was as simple as selling a few pieces of very large machines, no one would build the smaller ones. Cat would not have made the push they did to get into the compact equipment market. Bobcat would not be as big as they are today if it they did not make money selling smaller equipment. Komatsu also has gone big into the compact equipment market. The pinch is at the salesman level. He may work equally as hard selling a miniex as he would selling a 330. So depending on margins and how he gets paid. It is expected that he will favor the market that makes him the most money. Having been around many salesman and different methods of selling equipment, the dealers that have a compact equipment specialist and a heavy iron specialist seem to do the best.
 
With Komatsu they are doing both markets large and small where as Cat only wants to sell the big stuff. It why Komatsu is moving in and taking a big chunk of the construction market sized machines.

Out of the 300 plus excavators digging on this little short stretch of Coast line maybe 10% of them are Cat the rest is Hitachi Deere and Komatsu then you got the other brands like Kobelco.
 
Rat...Heres the lowdown....

Your cat dealer sucks...Sometimes that happens. Your dealer does not reflect all of the cat dealers.

Your Komatsu dealer knows this, so of course he is going to use that his advantage.

Now, you are either gullible or stubborn, but you need to get off your high horse and realize that your Cat experience is unusual. We all know your opinion already.
 
Gravel Rat - I don't understand why you think it's "Cat's" fault that their equipment doesn't sell or that the dealer service is terrible in your location. You make it sound like Caterpillar as a whole doesn't care about the little guys. Sounds more like a dealer problem, because Caterpillar itself doesn't sell directly to the customer and Caterpillar doesn't sell service either. IT'S THE DEALER. Fact of the matter is, it probably costs more to get Cat into Canada and that's why they aren't selling up there along with the unusually bad dealer service. Don't make it sound like Caterpillar as a company is bad just because your local dealers don't work with you. I'm in the same boat as you, our Deere dealer down here SUCKS. Is that to say that Deere is a horrible company and their equipment sucks big time? No. The local dealer just didn't want to work with me on a sale. Fine. Is that to say that I would never look at Deere again? No. But if the DEALER, not DEERE itself wants a sale from me in the future they're going to have to work harder than that.
 
There is one more thing. KSSS made some great points about the net of a large excavator, vs a compact unit. And in that scenario, everything makes perfect sense that compact equipment would take a back seat to larger equipment.
But here is the reality of how Caterpillar has structured it's sales force. They are divided, clearly. The compact sales department works more closely with the rental counter. Heavy iron sales are just that, and they help rent the heavy iron. If a Compact salesman excells selling small stuff, once an opening comes available in the heavy market, the job is placed up for bids within the franchise. Sales record and customer service are the first consideration when they promote a person. So, there is no incentive to slack on smaller, lessor net profit compact equipment, and every incentive to push hard so when that heavy sales job opens, the door also opens for that person to make more money.

That is exactly how and why Cat structured the two, so the small equipment would get the same attention to detail the big equipment does.
In consideration of Gravel Rats theories regarding Cat service in his area, unless his dealer franchisee operates like they are from Mars, I'm now finding it very difficult to swallow. Corporate would not let them get away with what he claims they have been getting away with. They are in business to sell machinery and profit along the way. You can't do that by selecting which segment of the market you will provide service to, you either do it all, bow out, or work specifically on the specialty machines you make. Since CAt makes as many varieties of equipment as the next guy, they have to service all and service them well if they are toi succeed.....
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
Crikey!!??????:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: :confused: :confused: :confused:

.......all I was doing was updating my machine...and look what happened.:rolleyes:
 
Squizzy246B said:
Crikey!!??????:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: :confused: :confused: :confused:

.......all I was doing was updating my machine...and look what happened.:rolleyes:
Squizzy, It always happens whenever the name Cat is mentioned Mr.Rat comes out of the wood work and bashes the name to hell & back.

On the lighter side congratulations on your new machines and good luck with them.

Rob
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
qps said:
Trouble maker:nono: :p
:eek: Sorry..I'll try not to let it happen again:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Discussion starter · #60 ·
Whilst on the subject of dealers my heavy equipment mentor was telling a story about one of dealers about a decade ago. The Tax office...??? IRS?..came to the dealer asking about some very big bonuses paid to one of their salesmen. Of course there was no such size bonus from the dealer. It was kickbacks from a big client they had sold some equipment to.

Since then the sales guys have been on a larger retainer and they get paid by the unit sold. It doesn't matter what size unit they sell its just a unit. I don't know the size of the retainers or if there is any difference between the heavy guys and the compacts but it kind of makes sense. The sales guy gets a set bonus wether its a mini-ex or a D10 sized dozer.
 
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