[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

Checking out their Extended Duration feeding products. Anyone use EPEC in their programs in prior seasons? Results? Thoughts? Drawbacks?
Looking for input from northern turfgrass guys.

 

[SlowMowTurf]

Go here: EPEC Nitrogen - Controlled-Release Fertilizer
At the top EPEC is: "premium, high-quality polymer-coated urea"
Under 60-day: "excellent replacement for PCSCU"

So EC Grow is replacing PCSCU (or PCU) with PCU? WTF

PCU and PCSCU fertilizers have been around for quite some time. They are just putting a coating around some of the nitrogen in the bag. Thicker coating => longer time to break it down and release.
Now manufacturers are trying to time exactly how long it will take for the nitrogen to be released. I would not trust anything beyond 90 days. There will always be an excuse from the manufacturer: Too much rain, too many bugs, too much heat- that's why it broke down too fast.

 

[SlowMowTurf]

I do use a 50%+ slow release in July. I'll use EC Grow, Lebanon - whichever is cheaper from my local supplier.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

Go here: EPEC Nitrogen - Controlled-Release Fertilizer
At the top EPEC is: "premium, high-quality polymer-coated urea"
Under 60-day: "excellent replacement for PCSCU"

So EC Grow is replacing PCSCU (or PCU) with PCU? WTF

PCU and PCSCU fertilizers have been around for quite some time. They are just putting a coating around some of the nitrogen in the bag. Thicker coating => longer time to break it down and release.
Now manufacturers are trying to time exactly how long it will take for the nitrogen to be released. I would not trust anything beyond 90 days. There will always be an excuse from the manufacturer: Too much rain, too many bugs, too much heat- that's why it broke down too fast.

I too would like to see some non-partial research into these 'Duration' type products and if they feed like the say they do. Also want to hear from guys on here who use them in the field. I'm not going to discount them yet, just need more data.

 

[SlowMowTurf]

This past summer I saw a post on lawnsite from someone down in Texas (I know completely different climate) complain about a Duration type product not feeding long enough. Manufacturer blamed it on the climate. I think manufacturer said too much heat. Not positive, but I thought the product was OneAp. I searched, but can't find the post.

I believe coatings work, maybe just not to the claimed effectiveness. Too many wild cards (rain, wind, heat, bugs, etc) to guarantee.

Pretty sure manufacturer is just coating the nitrogen with differing thicknesses poly. The more coating, the longer it takes to wear away and release what's contained inside. So a bag that feeds for 60 days may have:

• 30% nitrogen uncoated => immediate feed
• 30% nitrogen coated with .1 ml of poly => breakdown and feed in 30 days
• 40% nitrogen coated with .2 mil of poly => breakdown and feed in 60 days

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

This past summer I saw a post on lawnsite from someone down in Texas (I know completely different climate) complain about a Duration type product not feeding long enough. Manufacturer blamed it on the climate. I think manufacturer said too much heat. Not positive, but I thought the product was OneAp. I searched, but can't find the post.

I believe coatings work, maybe just not to the claimed effectiveness. Too many wild cards (rain, wind, heat, bugs, etc) to guarantee.

Pretty sure manufacturer is just coating the nitrogen with differing thicknesses poly. The more coating, the longer it takes to wear away and release what's contained inside. So a bag that feeds for 60 days may have:

• 30% nitrogen uncoated => immediate feed
• 30% nitrogen coated with .1 ml of poly => breakdown and feed in 30 days
• 40% nitrogen coated with .2 mil of poly => breakdown and feed in 60 days

You are right on that, and that is what EC Grow is doing. And I also agree, they aren't being deceptive, maybe more 'overselling' their products based on ideal weather conditions for coating breakdown. I have some graphs on N release from EC Grow, and they are based on 68 degree weather. Ok, thats like spring weather. When it gets much more hot and humid OR if you get in a big rainy streak, surely those coatings will release much faster.

Not saying that they aren't good products, but maybe adjust for these factors on your own accord.

 

[turfguru4u]

I looked into Surfcote by Knox Fertilizer and talked in depth with the manufactures rep. I also talked to some golf course superintendents that use it. The superintendents didn't think they were getting the longevity. I think it's a good idea, but I would only use this if the customer had prepaid for the season. It's a big cost up front. A company near me relies on this and some of the feedback i hear is not that good. I think it comes down to doing the same stop schedule for weeds and maybe do some foliar micro's to keep things humming along.

 

[CHARLES CUE]

/www.facebook.com/search/top?q=ec grow
may not do you any good but i seen this the otherday

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

/www.facebook.com/search/top?q=ec grow
may not do you any good but i seen this the otherday

What is it? It just went to the reg FB page for me?

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

I looked into Surfcote by Knox Fertilizer and talked in depth with the manufactures rep. I also talked to some golf course superintendents that use it. The superintendents didn't think they were getting the longevity. I think it's a good idea, but I would only use this if the customer had prepaid for the season. It's a big cost up front. A company near me relies on this and some of the feedback i hear is not that good. I think it comes down to doing the same stop schedule for weeds and maybe do some foliar micro's to keep things humming along.

I too agree the theoretical longevity may not be had. But do your own research and compensate accordingly, and then see if the $ and labor savings are there to give it a go. Labor savings being a biggie, can you get by with one less app of N per season and get relatively the same results? Im thinking about using this with Acelepryn and Dimension Rd 1, then just going weed control Rd 2. Massive savings in effort not having to pitch bags Rd 2, when it gets hot out. Thats worth something. And turf up here doesn't really need fed too much spring/early summer anyway.

 

[turfguru4u]

I too agree the theoretical longevity may not be had. But do your own research and compensate accordingly, and then see if the $ and labor savings are there to give it a go. Labor savings being a biggie, can you get by with one less app of N per season and get relatively the same results? Im thinking about using this with Acelepryn and Dimension Rd 1, then just going weed control Rd 2. Massive savings in effort not having to pitch bags Rd 2, when it gets hot out. Thats worth something. And turf up here doesn't really need fed too much spring/early summer anyway.

I really think its a good idea. Especially when you think about how much filler or "rock" we haul out every round. I go through about 40 skids a year. That means loading about 26 tons of rock every year and spreading it. Not very efficient in my mind!

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

I really think its a good idea. Especially when you think about how much filler or "rock" we haul out every round. I go through about 40 skids a year. That means loading about 26 tons of rock every year and spreading it. Not very efficient in my mind!

That is exactly my line of thought. Pitching out bags of 13-0-5 with Barricade. Mostly a bag of cheap limestone filler. And here is another thought: our calcareous soils around here are already limestone based with a higher pH. And I'm throwing MORE of it on lawns at every waking chance I get? Why not lessen that, even if its only 25-30%

 

[turfguru4u]

What is the cost per K of applying the double combo product?

 

[CHARLES CUE]

What is it? It just went to the reg FB page for me?

Yea i thought i deleted it , It didnt work if you go to FB and do a serch of EC Grow it a guy talking about ec grow fert.the post is from advanced turf

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

What is the cost per K of applying the double combo product?

I'll get back with you on that. Need to Calc that, then the per K savings on Rd 2, not having to spread N or grub control for that round.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

What is the cost per K of applying the double combo product?

Ok, cost per K of the combo product is right around $7, give or take if you tweak the app rate up or down. That gives you a .33lb/Ac Dimension rate which is solid, and just over the .10lb/Ac Acel min rate which I always use up here anyway.

My cost per K applying pre Rd1 and Acel Rd2, like I usually do, is right around $6.50/K. Yes I know that's high but Acel ain't cheap and I don't use cheap source fert either.

So, the combo product is just a bit more $. BUT, the labor savings is the kicker. No handling, loading, or pitching bags Rd 2. Straight weed control. With time savings you could do more add on services. And not wear yourself out handling bags either....that an intangible.

 

[turfguru4u]

It sounds like a great plan. The one thing that I ran into doing my research is the accuracy of the app itself. I know that there are times my apps can get off one time but never show because of the frequency of the app schedule. From what I understand it the rate needs to be exact throughout the lawn. Hard to really see much of a problem but it might be a little more time consuming on round 1. I loved the idea for doing the add-ons through the summer. Humic, kelp. micro's, fungicides, PGR's etc. It can free up time to do more advanced agronomy while the nitrogen is spooning itself out.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

It sounds like a great plan. The one thing that I ran into doing my research is the accuracy of the app itself. I know that there are times my apps can get off one time but never show because of the frequency of the app schedule. From what I understand it the rate needs to be exact throughout the lawn. Hard to really see much of a problem but it might be a little more time consuming on round 1. I loved the idea for doing the add-ons through the summer. Humic, kelp. micro's, fungicides, PGR's etc. It can free up time to do more advanced agronomy while the nitrogen is spooning itself out.

Agree but I'm not too worried about it. I usually only have rate issues when applying in high heat and humidity i.e. the Accuway in the Spyker hopper starts to cake with fert dust and the rate gets thin...so then you up the dial and, BANG, the cake breaks loose and all the sudden you are overapplying. I hate that. But with this CAD product, will be applied by mid May when cooler out so no real issues with caking and the Spyker will pitch pretty consistent.

One thing I am going to do is reserve this CAD stuff for decent and better lawns. I'm also buying a single skid of regular fert and Barricade to use earlier spring on some commercial lawns and residentials where the lawns are, frankly, not that great. Once the reg Rd 1 stuff is gone, then the CAD will go down. This will help ensure the Dimension will last as long as I need it to.

 

[turfguru4u]

I'll be following the progress of this plan to look at next year. I just think its good agronomy to start and potentially frees up time for upselling product customers would want.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

I'll be following the progress of this plan to look at next year. I just think its good agronomy to start and potentially frees up time for upselling product customers would want.

I put my order in today for 3 pallets of 26-0-5 with 90% EPEC, .15 Dim, and .058 Acel. The price per bag makes you gulp up front but I will be happier when I am running Rd 2 with no granular spread. I will run it at 10k sq ft per bag which applies 1.3 lbs N/K. Should give me 3 months feed, slowly.