ECS Controls...did you dislike them at first?

2204 Views 19 Replies 9 Participants Last post by [email protected], Aug 9, 2003

GarPA

Discussion Starter · Aug 8, 2003

Just wondering if any of you first disliked the Exmark ECS controls? Recently added a 36" Viking and I'm still learning the mower but man do my hands get tired with the ECS controls if I'm running it for any length of time...also wondering if those things will loosen up a bit as they get more hours on them? My wife mows our yard with it and she can barely use it safely since she has small hands and forearms.

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

Bob's Lawn

· #2 · Aug 8, 2003

ECS just takes some getting used to.

First thing I learned was not to try and mow too fast. If you are slowing the mower down with the grips all the time your hands will get sore. Slow the mower down so you are making few adjustments with the levers.

I can't imagine going back to pistol grips now.

Good luck,
Bob

Doc Pete

· #3 · Aug 8, 2003

Originally posted by GarPA
Just wondering if any of you first disliked the Exmark ECS controls? Recently added a 36" Viking and I'm still learning the mower but man do my hands get tired with the ECS controls if I'm running it for any length of time...also wondering if those things will loosen up a bit as they get more hours on them? My wife mows our yard with it and she can barely use it safely since she has small hands and forearms.

As Ultimate Lawns says, the H bar is for "wimps and the limpwristed". And, he's right. However, that only means the controls are so easy anyone can use them. Next time don't listen to what the masses say.........get what's easiest to use.

Mark Oomkes

· #4 · Aug 8, 2003

No. 100% better than pistol grips.

ULTIMATE LAWN

· #5 · Aug 8, 2003

There is a breaking in period of about 50-100 hrs after which they become much easier to squeeze. There is also a short learning curve during which you may overuse the controls which can cause stress.

These units will not cause fatigue on anyone but girls, small children, & the elderly once they are properly worked in.

naturescape

· #6 · Aug 8, 2003

Slowing down the speed will also decrease the distance in the grip, that will help to lighten things up.

Also, are your neutral latches tight? Dealers around here (Weingartz) tighten them up very tight. Seems to me they should be loose and free to swing down on their own when the levers are squeezed (that's why the latches have that extra plastic on the bottom, so gravity pulls them down on their own), automatically putting the machine in gear, that will also make things easier to handle.

Doc Pete

· #7 · Aug 8, 2003

Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
These units will not cause fatigue on anyone but girls, small children, & the elderly once they are properly worked in.

Uh oh, you found me out, but I don't wear my dress when I mow.

Doc Pete

· #8 · Aug 8, 2003

Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
There is a breaking in period of about 50-100 hrs after which they become much easier to squeeze. .

If you don't mind, what parts have to break in???? Maybe after "One Hundred hours", it's not the parts breaking in, but the operators' arms becoming like Popeye's.

Movinfr8

· #9 · Aug 8, 2003

Can't speak for pistols, or H-bar, as I never tried them. As a rookie, I like the ECS on mine, but it bothers me the way the operator presence bar seems to cut into the web of my thumbs. I don't know a fix, but I thought about mowing with gloves on. I am kinda getting used to it, but need to keep gloves on for changing deck height, cause ya cann get greasy doin that for sure!!
Norm

Doc Pete

· #10 · Aug 8, 2003

Originally posted by Movinfr8
but it bothers me the way the operator presence bar seems to cut into the web of my thumbs.

Yeah, it bothered me, too. The H bar has none to fix, remove or fiddle with. Women just love that....

naturescape

· #11 · Aug 8, 2003

As a rookie, I like the ECS on mine, but it bothers me the way the operator presence bar seems to cut into the web of my thumbs.

I wish all commercial manufacturers would switch to a safety system like the old Ariens and Graveleys had -- the switches would recess into the handgrips flush. Would reduce the grip distance on ExM, and be MUCH more comfortable.

ULTIMATE LAWN

· #12 · Aug 8, 2003

Originally posted by naturescape
Seems to me they should be loose and free to swing down on their own when the levers are squeezed (that's why the latches have that extra plastic on the bottom, so gravity pulls them down on their own), automatically putting the machine in gear, that will also make things easier to handle.

Very Dangerous. If the Neutral latches are too loose they can catch the drive during a zero turn on unneven ground causing the unit to spin out of control. The latches are fixed with loctite so they should have just enough resistance so the operator can easily flip them with their thumb.

The ECS controls soften considerably with use & a quick demo of the system on a new unit does not accurately reflect the comfort level attained through continuous usage.

On some units the OPC does not sit flush with the bar & will cut into the web of the operators thumb. However if they are seated properly they Will Not do this. I have had to Slightly bend the OPC on 1 or 2 Units to get it to Optimum Positioning.

GarPA

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 8, 2003

You guys (and one "girl") should have seen my trying to learn the ECS and the velke at the same timee.....man was that funny to watch...decided to get real good with the ecs before we crash and burn with the velke. One contraption at a time please.

I have new repect for operators who fly thru obstacle course yards with this set up....I think the Z has spoiled me a little as that was very easy to get the hang of once you learned where not to drive it.

The velke I bough has the longer arm...I think its 18 inches. Like anything new, I'm not comfortable yet with it but it seems I have to reach too far for the mower controls but because I'm 6'2, I was told the longer arm would be a better fit...I'll guess I'll know better when my "training " is over and I'm better at using it.

ElephantNest

· #14 · Aug 8, 2003

To answer switchless, (combs hair) the safety latch that goes under your palms will wear down, becoming more comfortable as it thins. I am going to take mine off since I am the only one using my machine.

But what I don't like about the ECS, or am not used to, is that when I swing fast, and I do, I don't have the grip like I did with the bar, it is very difficult to hold on, making me slow down, which I don't want to do. I've been riding sulkes/velkes for a long time and am used to being able to really swing that sucker....but no more it seems. Because of the positioning of the hands, the bar rests between your thumbs and the grip, taking away the feeling of gripping. Anyone else experience this?

~Nest

Doc Pete

· #15 · Aug 9, 2003

Originally posted by ElephantNest
But what I don't like about the ECS, or am not used to, is that when I swing fast, and I do, I don't have the grip like I did with the bar, it is very difficult to hold on, making me slow down, which I don't want to do. I've been riding sulkes/velkes for a long time and am used to being able to really swing that sucker....but no more it seems. Because of the positioning of the hands, the bar rests between your thumbs and the grip, taking away the feeling of gripping. Anyone else experience this?~Nest

Seems you have found some of the accepted shortcomings of ECS controls.
I can see two different scenarios; one is actually walking and other is with a sulky. With a sulky, the problem I find is if you set your controls for full speed, every time you want to slow down and do so close intricate work, you have to squeeze both grips in equally to keep the machine going straight, and then constantly continue squeezing each one as needed to turn. In other words, running wide open is fine; its when you want and hold change speeds for different areas that becomes labor intensive. Also, as you increase speed, those of us (girls) with small hands will have a harder time working the pistol grip controls as the lever distances becomes greater and greater as you raise the machines top end. This is what turned me away from any type of pistol grips.
Walking with the machine is another case, which everyone has their preferences.

ULTIMATE LAWN

· #16 · Aug 9, 2003

Switchless I may get a Hustler Super WB 48" Next year if eXmark doesn't Bump up the hp on their 48" for the 2004 models.

But what's up with the Blade Tip Speed of 16,250 fpm vs. 18, 500 on the TTHP 48". Or will the 48" Super WB be Greater?

Also What will be the Trim side on the Super if it Has Super Wide tires & is the 48" getting a 23hp?

The Lawn Boy Pro

· #17 · Aug 9, 2003

What? youre not gonna buy a whole fleet of them to store on shelves?

Doc Pete

· #18 · Aug 9, 2003

Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
Switchless I may get a Hustler Super WB 48" Next year if eXmark doesn't Bump up the hp on their 48" for the 2004 models.

But what's up with the Blade Tip Speed of 16,250 fpm vs. 18, 500 on the TTHP 48". Or will the 48" Super WB be Greater?

Also What will be the Trim side on the Super if it Has Super Wide tires & is the 48" getting a 23hp?

I'm sure you keep up posting

,
I admit Hustlers have not yet sped their blades on the 48 yet, however, other than Exmark, many other makers havent either. FWIW, Ive sped mine up and I really dont see much of a difference.
Actually, and Im sure youll agree, if the lawns are cut approximately as needed, the standard blade speed is fine. And, adding doubles to the 48, which it will pull very well, the cut is excellent.
FYI, I finally got to race my friends 23 Kaw Exmark rider and my Super WB is a tad faster. For arguments sake we can call them even.
As far as a trim side for the 48 SWB, I dont know, since my custom machines have different rims. However, I did order a factory SWB, which I should have next week, and Ill let you know. Frankly, even with my custom SWB, I really dont have a problem without having a true trim side.
Actually, as an overall package, I find the wider tires more productive than the minimum amount of times I need a trim side. With the wider tires, I can cut a 45 angle on a 30 degree slope and not have any scalping were I transverse from level the hill. I dont have to negotiate uneven terrain, as I did with a standard WB. The cut is diffinetly better than a standard width WB from the wider stance and softer ride of the cushiony tires. Plus, the wider stance doesnt leave uneven cut marks while mowing parallel on a hill that is concave in make up, which a standard WB will.
FYI, the only time I lose production efficiency is when I trim an outside curved bed that has a very small radius. Then yes, it takes about 2 seconds for me to trim the small section the mower cannot cut.
As the intelligent professional I know you are, regardless that we bump heads about ECS controls, Im sure you fully understand each scenario Ive offered, and can agree you find the same problems are present with a standard WB.
Oh, last thing. Yes, yes, yes, Hustlers do clump more than an Exmark on Wet grass. Again, there is a trade off. Hustler confines their blades in the deck to increase chute exit speed for better grass dispersal, and it works great most of the time. However, with overly wet grass, the grass does build up on the rear tips of the blades separators, and after a time almost isolates each blade, like a mulching deck. Then the deck acts like a mulcher, with the end open, and this allows clumping to be a problem. Keeping the deck clean for even new lawn helps a lot. However, it can be a problem. Again, Hustler has chosen higher air speed at the chute, while Exmark goes for high air volume.

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ULTIMATE LAWN

· #19 · Aug 9, 2003

This would be a designated Mulch unit Only. Both the Hustler & eXmark decks are 5" deep on the 48" & both use a baffled mulch kit (Hustler has an Identical Kit to Micro Mulch-Yes?) so their mulching capabilities should be comparable if engine & Blade tip speed are Equal. The 17Kaw on the 48" eXmark isn't enough which is Why I may Get the Hustler Super (23hp?) if they Don't put a Larger engine on in 2004. Blade Tip Speed May be a Limiting Factor on the Hustler.

Trim Side would Be Important as these Units are used to trim around Alot of Landcape Beds.

Doc Pete

· #20 · Aug 9, 2003

Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
Trim Side would Be Important as these Units are used to trim around Alot of Landcape Beds.

I can't argue with you. My Helper uses his standard belt WB for all the trimming and I use the 54/bullrider for the bigger stuff.
I'll keep you up to date when I get my SWB. It's very possible that the rims on the SWB are full offset and "reversed", so you may be able to reverse the "reversed" rims

and get another 4 inchers of trimmer width on each side.
Again, my properties are bumpy odd shaped and hilly, so the wider stance fits my needs, while for you it can be a problem.

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