Maybe you should reread what I said. If a noob goes out and gets himself a bunch of debt for a fancy new truck and equipment he very well could lose money at $50/ph. I agree business reputation and known skill can demand a higher rate over a noob. I agree as it's pretty much what I said in my post. Again if his overhead recovery is higher then yours he might lose at $50. That's why I said to establish a profitable hourly rate. He might find himself unable to compete but poor business planning and unsustainable prices is normally the down fall of most business.