Existing flagstone patio removal and re-set price???

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by G-Jacobsen, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. G-Jacobsen

    G-Jacobsen LawnSite Member
    Messages: 6

    I am new to lawnsite.com forum but not new to hardscaping (this type of project I haven't done) and I had a question for some of the other experienced hardscapers. I have a customer that has 750 sq ft of existing flagstone patio dry set, with large gaps (poorly installed) and water pools in areas so it needs to be graded properly. So, I was figuring since I am pulling up larger 2x3 flagstone (roughly, some larger) and then grading and possibly adding in new base (I dont know what they put beneath it) and then grading, resetting and sweeping the joints, I figured this job would be a patio install price minus the flagstone cost. I am touching these monsters twice versus just grading the existing landscape and then installing a patio. Am I looking at this correctly? What would be your sq ft price range (I know everyone has different expenses). I'll tell you we usually hover around $15+/ sq ft for an install with materials, so I was thinking around $10-$12/sq ft for this project. I know this job will be a pain in the a**. Thanks!
     
  2. hort101

    hort101 LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from S.E. New England
    Messages: 16,128

    So add a pita factor in price imo

    You have 2 jobs demo and then what you normally would do if its bare ground new install might be a little less grading but as you said your handling the stones twice

    all just my 2 cents
     
  3. G-Jacobsen

    G-Jacobsen LawnSite Member
    Messages: 6

    Yep I agree, I think the sticker price is going to be a shocker for them but we have lots of contractors doing shoddy work here in New Mexico and we bid jobs to do it right the first time. Unfortunately we have to fix it and the PITA factor. I am thinking in the neighborhood of 9k for this job, would you agree?
     
    BrandonV and hort101 like this.
  4. hort101

    hort101 LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from S.E. New England
    Messages: 16,128

    Not sure on pricing but Ive seen the same situation and our hardscape guy said more labor to fix a mess then If that customer had hired him to do it right the first time

    If your reusing the material then thats the only cost saving
     
    Walker56 likes this.
  5. G-Jacobsen

    G-Jacobsen LawnSite Member
    Messages: 6

    True, that's what I thought. Thanks for the response.
     
    hort101 likes this.
  6. hort101

    hort101 LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from S.E. New England
    Messages: 16,128

    Im no expert give it some time some of the hardscape guys might give you better adviceThumbs Up
     
    Walker56 and G-Jacobsen like this.
  7. Hayduke

    Hayduke LawnSite Member
    from Oregon
    Messages: 16

    This price would put most of the landscapers out of business in my neck of the woods...
    750 sq feet is pretty big, so economies of scale come in to play, but we'd still be around $26-30 for an uncomplicated new dry set install. Take away $6/sq ft for the flagstone you get to reuse (we pay 29 cents a pound here and a ton will cover roughly 100 sq feet if its 2" thick or better. So then we'd be at $20-24.
    But...you have to pull everything up, and if there is already drainage problems, likely you'll have to re-do the base which was probably improperly installed or not installed at all. So then your digging all this up and hauling it out and re-installing hopefully a properly compacted base. We have run into several patios that were installed on top of sand on top of clay-no gravel base at all.
    We have re-installed several, and they are a pita. $10-$12 per square foot for a well done job makes my knees shiver-don't move out here!

    So if you do to take it on, please re-post whether you made any money or not
     
    hort101 likes this.
  8. G-Jacobsen

    G-Jacobsen LawnSite Member
    Messages: 6

    No kidding Hayaduke!? I have had my business for about 5 years now and I have found my bids to be right in line with the prices of outfits that have been in the New Mexico market for 20+ years including my older brother. He does stellar work, as good as anybody out here. I have also seen some outfits that charge exhorbitant amounts of money for jobs and stay in business which certainly has me telling myself, "I need to raise my prices," BUT I am consistently in the 40-50% profit range on our jobs. So, with that being said New Mexico is far from a good economy nor do we have any money in our state. We may pay employees less than you also and pay alot less to live. So it's possible our economy won't sustain that sq ft price. I know we get our flagstone between 2.8-3.25 per sq ft. This is one other difference in pricing but shoot I will certainly let you know if I get it. Out here there is a possibility I will get underbid at that price too HAHA and again, people are also stupid so they may not go with my bid even though they say they read all my great reviews. No doubt about the PITA!
     
    hort101 likes this.
  9. G-Jacobsen

    G-Jacobsen LawnSite Member
    Messages: 6

    This was just part of the overall job too so if it does turn out to be a PITA learning experience I can offset with the other work. Thanks for the respone.
     
    hort101 likes this.
  10. Hayduke

    Hayduke LawnSite Member
    from Oregon
    Messages: 16

    Yeah, I kind of jumped the gun on this reply without considering location. Every state's economy is so different, cost of living, average wages, etc. A three bedroom 2000 sq foot house at the bottom end is $425,000 here if that's any comparison.
    So forget comparing square foot pricing with other locations around the nation-it's like comparing apples to bananas. We never price by square foot anyway, it's just a general guideline for preparing bids.
    The real question is what is your production rate for a new install? Then factor in the extra time to remove the flagstone and set aside somewhere while you assess the quality of the base. It may have to be completely re-done. You could make a clause in the contract if you haven't already stating that you do not know the condition of the base, and it may have to be completely re-done and will cost $xxxx.

    If there is anything I have learned in this business, it is this: it is ALWAYS more expensive to remove something and then re-build it whether its a fence, patio, retaining wall. Even getting to re-use materials has never offset the cost for us on these types of re-dos.
    Most importantly, if this is a learning experience as you say, is to track and record production details as well as you can. It is priceless info to have for future projects
     
    hort101 likes this.

Share This Page