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Fall pre-m

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by hmartin, Aug 6, 2006.

  1. hmartin

    hmartin LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 590

    How many people that are treating non-irrigated warm season lawns use a pre-emerge in late summer? I was planning on using .5 AI of Barricade around Sept. 1, but it has not rained here in 6 weeks. If this dry spell continues, I think it will just be a waste. Not many of my customers are going to ensure 1/2" of water across there whole lawn to water in the herbicide. I may just save some money and just apply some potash and leave out the barricade.
    I am planning on using Simazine/3way in my last round in November. Does anyone care sharing their next to last warm season application.
  2. LLandscaping

    LLandscaping LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,016

    We apply Lesco Pre-M about the middle of August. We only treat Zyosia and Bermuda lawns.
  3. ThreeWide

    ThreeWide LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,116

    Just about ready to start doing the same thing in my area.

    Don't be concerned about the non-irrigated sites. Barricade can go up to 21 days before being watered in without losing any efficacy. It has a longer half-life than most commonly used preemergents.
  4. LawnDawg65

    LawnDawg65 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 92

    I use simazine in the fall here, it is extremely dry here so I will also apply potash this year along with 3 way. Just curious why you use Barricade or pendamethlin in the fall? I use those products in the spring only for crabgrass prevention, Simazine in the fall is cheap and an excellent product, but this is for Texas= mainly bermuda & St. aug. That's just my opinion but it has seved me well for 21 years, on and I prefer dimension in the spring. Thanks, chris
    Texas Dept. Of Agriculture # 0400163
  5. LawnDawg65

    LawnDawg65 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 92

    It is not so much the pre-m you have to worry about damaging the grass as it is the broadleaf weed control! be very careful of the dry lawns with no rain in the forecast- because it will "fry a lawn in a heartbeat"
  6. ThreeWide

    ThreeWide LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,116

    I apply Preemergent in the late Summer to help prevent Poa Annua. Poa has been shown to start germinating as early as August.

    In November, I spray Simazine which will knock out any small Poa that might have germinated as well as prevent further germination into Winter. Simazine is not very effective on mature Poa, so this is the reason for the Barricade now.

    Poa germinates in a very broad time window here, so you have to protect warm season grasses against it for several months.

    This may not be the answer for everyone. It involves how much preemergent you applied in the Spring. If you applied at the max rate in the Spring or late Winter, this app might not be needed at all. In my case, Barricade was applied at 1 lb AI/Acre earlier this year. This is not enough to last well into Fall, which is why another app is needed now. Yes I could have went at 1.5 lb AI/Acre, but chose not to for other reasons.
  7. LawnDawg65

    LawnDawg65 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 92

    Not so much a big problem here, pretty much the same rates apply here- I go heavy in the fall and lighter in the Spring, I do 7 applications here 3 prem's, 1 fall- 2 spring and 4 dry- 5 apps on HOA'S and Commercial- How many do you do in Georgia? oh I am not a fan of Atrazine but it works better on existing poa, than simazine----- Revolver is the best
  8. hmartin

    hmartin LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 590

    LawnDawg, what is the heavier and lighter you are talking about--Atrazine?

    Last year I made the mistake of applying Simazine on some lawns that were not dormant yet. Needless to say they were about 2 days later. All brown, no permanent damage, just looked like winter in September.
  9. LawnDawg65

    LawnDawg65 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 92

    the heavy I was referring to is the AI in the mix, of course this all depends on the weather around here-ie- dry,wet, cold,warm, this all changes how I mix my tanks, 2 Lesco 300 gallon agitated polly tanks. I have never seen Simazine turn a lawn brown here, some companies, Trugreen will start spraying later this month and it is still 100 + every day, me I will wait a tad longer
  10. quiet

    quiet LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 720

    Hmmm. Thought provoking.

    But I still use pretty much the same thinking as Turf Unlimited. My two 1/2 rate apps of Barricade - 1st one around Labor Day, and 2nd around December 1 - have done just an excellent job all through the year. No poa (except for 1 BIG account), and so little crab grass breakthrough through the year it's not worth mentioning.

    But I'm always wary. We're into the 20th month of a now severe drought. All my properties are irrigated, so I can't help hmartin with the current dry conditions . . . Yet I'm sure the weather in MS can turn on a dime! And you'll need 2 weeks for the pre-m barrier to set up! Discuss it with your customers. They'll appreciate it.

    Me? I'd put it down to stop the poa. Winter broadleafs are nothing to kill, but poa is a PITA if you miss it . . . Are they (and you) willing to live with poa until next Memorial Day? That one BIG account I mentioned wasn't!

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