Finally have an apples to apples comparison of a high torque trimmer head vs standard

Ridin' Green

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Michigan
The worse part about Black Diamond is that it breaks off at the head often, and then you have to re-spool the head. This is particularly true when edging.
I don't have that problem with BD and I've used it since it first came out. It tends to be soft when new, so I let it sit in the corner of my garage for a couple months, or better yet, but a big spool in the fall and let it sit all winter to dry out. It lasts as well as any other line then.

I agree with you about the high torque heads not being necessary. However, to me, the torque head sounds like it is spinning faster and recovering faster in the videos and I listened several times. Maybe it sounded different in person.
 
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OP
cold-beer

cold-beer

LawnSite Senior Member
I don't have that problem with BD and I've used it since it first came out. It tends to be soft when new, so I let it sit in the corner of my garage for a couple months, or better yet, but a big spool in the fall and let it sit all winter to dry out. It lasts as well as any other line then.

I agree with you about the high torque heads not being necessary. However, to me, the torque head sounds like it is spinning faster and recovering faster in the videos and I listened several times. Maybe it sounded different in person.
When you let line sit out and dry out is when it breaks??? That's why people soak line in water so it will last longer. Maybe the Black Diamond is different??? Every time I have used black diamond it seems as if it breaks on dandelions. I tried it when it first came out and after they changed the formula because people complained about how weak it was. It does cut very well. I will give it that.

As far as the videos go, yes the high torque is spinning faster. That's because I'm using a speed feed 450 with a 20" swath and .130 line. The standard gearing outperforms the high torque gearing with smaller line, but not with the big stuff when using a 25cc motor. That may not be true with Shindaiwa's 30.5 cc motor.

Basically, the high torque heads are a gimmick unless you're using .130 or bigger line if we are talking about performance. I would suspect the high torque heads are easier on the motor regardless of string size though.
 

Ridin' Green

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Michigan
When you let line sit out and dry out is when it breaks??? That's why people soak line in water so it will last longer. Maybe the Black Diamond is different??? Every time I have used black diamond it seems as if it breaks on dandelions. I tried it when it first came out and after they changed the formula because people complained about how weak it was. It does cut very well. I will give it that.

As far as the videos go, yes the high torque is spinning faster. That's because I'm using a speed feed 450 with a 20" swath and .130 line. The standard gearing outperforms the high torque gearing with smaller line, but not with the big stuff when using a 25cc motor. That may not be true with Shindaiwa's 30.5 cc motor.

Basically, the high torque heads are a gimmick unless you're using .130 or bigger line if we are talking about performance. I would suspect the high torque heads are easier on the motor regardless of string size though.
Yes, I soak many different lines and have for years, but BD comes awfully soft from the factory and letting it dry out does make it last longer without breaking nearly so fast IME. I have cut small brush to regular light weekly growth with it and have had very good luck after letting it dry out.

No doubt that any time an engine has less load on it, it will last longer. It just seems that in thsi business, most guys replace trimmer every couple years, so I'm just not convinced they'd see a ROI. If you're like me and hang onto things a little longer, then maybe, but I have just never had a need for the torque models with any line I use. If it requires thicker line like .130", the FS 250 gets the call.
 
OP
cold-beer

cold-beer

LawnSite Senior Member
No doubt that any time an engine has less load on it, it will last longer. It just seems that in thsi business, most guys replace trimmer every couple years, so I'm just not convinced they'd see a ROI. If you're like me and hang onto things a little longer, then maybe, but I have just never had a need for the torque models with any line I use. If it requires thicker line like .130", the FS 250 gets the call.

I would never buy a dedicated trimmer with a high torque head because I have a legit brush cutter for the big stuff, but I like this high torque atachement for my multi-tool because I only have my brush-cutter on my trailer when I'm ding brush jobs or clean ups. Once in a while, It's nice to just change an attachment if I run into some light brush on my regular route or on a job I didn't expect to need my brush-cutter.
 

Valk

LawnSite Platinum Member
Location
KS
Yes, I soak many different lines and have for years, but BD comes awfully soft from the factory and letting it dry out does make it last longer without breaking nearly so fast IME. I have cut small brush to regular light weekly growth with it and have had very good luck after letting it dry out.
RG, any issues w/ BD welding to itself - whether new or aged?

Great thread, cold-beer! You've basically confirmed my suspicions all along.
I'll re-add that 'maybe' these torque head models are a better unit to hand to an employee - especially if the guard is removed and it is a newb employee who 'might' let out too much line and not know how to grind down the line length -> causing an overheated engine that can/will stall while also wearing-down the clutch in the process.
 

Ridin' Green

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Michigan
I haven't had any problem with that at all so far, new or dried out some. I will add, my experience with it has always been in a SF400, so maybe that makes a difference, but I can't say for sure.
 

Shayne Anderson

LawnSite Member
Trimmers and trimmer line are all a very personal flavor. It's kinda like ford, Chevy, dodge, Toyota thing. There's so many variables, a)string diameter, b) string cross section shape, c) bent shaft/ straight shaft, d) brand of machine, e) hi-torque vs regular, f)and then all the different heights and types of grass...and then there's the closeness of proximity to dealerships and the quality of dealership that they are..... Im always reading everyone's perspective on whatever topic is being discussed and find joy in applying different ideas as I go along, some things/ideas work better, and others not so much. Its all good, and i appreciate everything that everyone ads to this forum trying to add their ideas and insight to a career that I myself thoroughly enjoy. Thanks to everyone for any and all input, have a Very Merry Christmas and an awesome New Year....btw,2021 can't be as bizarre as 2020
 
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JLH52

LawnSite Senior Member
Trimmers and trimmer line are all a very personal flavor. It's kinda like ford, Chevy, dodge, Toyota thing. There's so many variables, a)string diameter, b) string cross section shape, c) bent shaft/ straight shaft, d) brand of machine, e) hi-torque vs regular, f)and then all the different heights and types of grass...and then there's the closeness of proximity to dealerships and the quality of dealership that they are..... Im always reading everyone's perspective on whatever topic is being discussed and find joy in applying different ideas as I go along, some things/ideas work better, and others not so much. Its all good, and i appreciate everything that everyone ads to this forum trying to add their ideas and insight to a career that I myself thoroughly enjoy. Thanks to everyone for any and all input, have a Very Merry Christmas and an awesome New Year....btw,2021 can't be as bizarre as 2020

Well said.
 

Envy Lawn Service

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
North Carolina
Thanks for the in depth apples to apples reviewing. I had been looking for something like this for a long time. My stuff is so old I haven't experienced any of the torque head stuff and it is not the kind of thing you can demo. So this is helpful. It's also nice because my old redmax is the same engine size plus the Shin M262 was one of the machines I was looking at for a multi-tool option.

I was leaning to Shindaiwa and Redmax over Echo because I was a little afraid the flex cable Echo may have more vibration. Do you have any idea if Echo tools will attach to the M262? I have heard yes and no on that. My memory is fuzzy but I don't think Shin offers the bed edge redefiner attachment.
 

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