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Going from employees to solo this yr-worth it?

11K views 101 replies 44 participants last post by  Spratz86 
#1 ·
In the spring, I read on here that some of the lco's decided to trim down and go solo. If this was you, did it pay? Would you do it again. Less headaches?
Did you put more in your pocket with less?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
If you are considering it, you are very likely a good candidate.
Catch my drift here?

Solo or Solo + 1 Dang fine helper.
 
#3 ·
I wonder if it has mostly to do with whether you are good at and enjoy managing people. In other words:

If you don't want to be doing all the grunt work all of the time and you at least have the will to learn how to effectively manage people - you should be growing your business into multiple crews

or

If you don't have the patience to manage people and you prefer working alone or with a helper - you should stay small


Is this accurate?
 
#4 ·
thecolorgreen said:
I wonder if it has mostly to do with whether you are good at and enjoy managing people. In other words:

If you don't want to be doing all the grunt work all of the time and you at least have the will to learn how to effectively manage people - you should be growing your business into multiple crews

or

If you don't have the patience to manage people and you prefer working alone or with a helper - you should stay small

Is this accurate?
Yes and No...

For many many many reasons.
Some to do with what you listed.
Some with opposite or nothing to do with it.
 
#5 ·
If you're strictly a mow/ edge/blow guy, two guys can make some bucks. Even if you throw in some major shearing/trimming operations, you can get it done via creative scheduling. Throw in a few landscaping jobs, aeration, fertilization, and seeding, turf and ornamental spraying and time gets short.
You have to have a no-sh*t pain threshold, both physically and economically. Promote like hell, and cherry pick in a very diplomatic fashion. I made $250 in one hour this past Saturday on an aeration job, but this Thursday we'll spend 6 M/H's detailing a large property for $75.00. It's a contract which has been in the company for about 15 years, and due to some bizarre sense of loyalty we haven't shed the nag yet. I spent a year as a foreman for a prestigious landscape architect, and the biggest headache I saw was the inability to reliably schedule a week's worth of work. The company employed crackheads, drunks, teenaged parents and thieves. Of course, none of that was on their job applications. Not knowing whether you can complete a job with the desired results is worse than never getting the contract.
 
#6 ·
how do you manage people when everyon in the state are potheads and worthless white boys and you never know if someone is actually going to show up the next day. hell i had 2 people this summer disapear and never come back for their last and only paycheck with me.
 
#7 ·
I think its better to have a full time or part time helper if you can do it that way. Even if your helper isnt very skilled, you can move much faster on things like shrub trimming because you can have them clean up as you trim.

I am in the middle of trimming over 100 shrubs and I really wish I had some help cleaning up . It would cut my time on this job in half and I would be on other jobs that I had lined up.

For mowing, I have several huge yards that require about 30 minutes of trimming and yet again a helper would cut my time on these yards in half.
 
#8 ·
thecolorgreen said:
I wonder if it has mostly to do with whether you are good at and enjoy managing people. In other words:

If you don't want to be doing all the grunt work all of the time and you at least have the will to learn how to effectively manage people - you should be growing your business into multiple crews

or

If you don't have the patience to manage people and you prefer working alone or with a helper - you should stay small

Is this accurate?
Its not a question of small or large. A bunch of lco's on this site said they are going the solo route this year and I was checking to see how they did. I had 1 crew this year while I opened up a pizzeria in the spring and sold it last month. During the bulding of the pizzeria, I only kept my top customers (20) and sold off the rest to my crew. I am now solo again and after looking at the profit/loss comparisons along with all the headaches with a crew I am going to stick with the solo route.

Any other crews to solo operations out their?
 
#9 ·
I went back to being full time solo last year.

Over the years I've had up to 7 guys working / summer.

Right before I went back to being solo, I had my cousin working with me for his 5th year. Each year, it SEEMED like he got lazier and lazier.

It could have very well just been me thinking he should know what to do now, and him not knowing what to do.

However, for the last 7 years, I've basically been doing the same yards each year, give or take 1 or 2. After doing the same yards, week after week, basically a trim / mow / blow, I was expecting him to know what to do on each yard.

Anyways, last year and this year I'm working solo. This year I raised my prices between 10 and 50%, depending on who I wanted to keep, and ended up keeping them all, plus adding 4 more accounts.

Earlier this year I was working 90-110 hour weeks, but then it got real dry and I was down to about 50 hour weeks. Now it's raining again, and trying to finish up round 3 of fertilizing and spraying I'm back up to 70-80 hour weeks.

There's not enough sun in the day anymore, especially when the dew doesn't burn off until 9 am or so.

I'll end up grossing about $12k more this year, just over $135k, but I'll probably net about the same, by the time you figure increase in fuel, insurance, fertilizer, etc.

Personally, I'll never go back to having employees.
 
#10 ·
I used to have up to 8 guys. All were worthless in their own way. Even the crew chiefs were iffy at times. Now I do all the cutting and applicating by myself. If I need help for landscape or maintenance work, I hit the local "union hall" and pick up as many amigos as I need. If they're lazy, well, there's a hundred more just waiting for work." managing employees" is the same no matter what you do. Americans have to be bullsh!tted into doing a days work. For example: Walmart cashiers are called "assosiates", first assistant to the vice-pres of marketing used to called secretary. Even saying vice-prez of anything used to be called manager. I got tired of training people to be my competition. I don't have to here employees whine about working in the rain, or not show up, or break stuff, or rip me off in general intentionaly or just through stupidity. I don't mind working it keeps me healthy whereas mental stress will kill you. I make just as much know as before with this formula and am much happier for it. I don't need to be the big dog anymore or impress anybody but myself. Go solo and you'll have alot less hands in you pockets.
 
#11 ·
I've been solo again for several years now and I still love it this way. Freeeeeedom.
I do consider major expansion and still might go that route some day, but while I can do it solo, I'll stay solo.

A side note though is that I am concerned about always breathing in exhaust fumes. I use a dust mask/respirator for dust, but is there anything available to clean-up the exhaust itsealf like a catalytic converter I can get or a type of filter. I hate exhaust. I'll start a new thread on it, but any ideas?
 
#13 ·
K.Carothers said:
In the spring, I read on here that some of the lco's decided to trim down and go solo. If this was you, did it pay? Would you do it again. Less headaches?
Did you put more in your pocket with less?

Thanks
I have to do 300k with employees to make the same profit as I do solo. I am extremely picky about the customers I take though. Advertise a lot in the yellow pages and get tons of calls for everything under the sun all year long. I'd rather do less and make more. Meaning I'd rather spend 4 hours a week driving around doing estimates, talking with potential customers, making MORE off them because I establish a relationship with them, than grunting out 4 hours of landscaping at a reduced rate.

I own a cleaning company as well with 12 employees and I make more profit by myself than that company does. Whenever I want to get stressed out, frustrated, ticked off, and downright angry, I spend a day down there!!!!

If you're bent on getting a big company, I'm convinced it's easier to work solo a few years, save tons of money and just buy one, or buy multiple small ones. Especially with interest rates as low as they are.
 
#14 ·
lawnguyland said:
I've been solo again for several years now and I still love it this way. Freeeeeedom.
I do consider major expansion and still might go that route some day, but while I can do it solo, I'll stay solo.

A side note though is that I am concerned about always breathing in exhaust fumes. I use a dust mask/respirator for dust, but is there anything available to clean-up the exhaust itsealf like a catalytic converter I can get or a type of filter. I hate exhaust. I'll start a new thread on it, but any ideas?
Switch to a chemical mask, since you already wear a mask. It's the only thing that will filter out the poisons in exhaust. It's the ones with the screw on filters. A bit pricey, but you can suck air from an open ammonia bottle and you won't smell a thing with one of those on.

Use synthetic 2 stroke oil as well, cuts down on emissions a lot.
 
#16 ·
Evergreenpros said:
Switch to a chemical mask, since you already wear a mask. It's the only thing that will filter out the poisons in exhaust. It's the ones with the screw on filters. A bit pricey, but you can suck air from an open ammonia bottle and you won't smell a thing with one of those on.

Use synthetic 2 stroke oil as well, cuts down on emissions a lot.
I do use a respirator for applications and a moldex n95 w/ carbon filter at other times and that helps a lot. I also do use amsoil . I hate wearing a mask period so I'm trying to figure ways to clean up the air. Thought about 4 cycle trimmer, but a little too heavy for my liking (mowers are already 4 cycle, but even that exhaust could be cleaner). Thanks for the suggestions. I've looked at a few sites and seen small engine catalytic converterts (my husqy blower has one) so I think I'll do some tinkering this winter. Shoot, if there were strong enough motors and batteries I'd try to use cordless battery powered equipment. I digress though, I like being solo!
 
#17 ·
Not solo but down to one crew. Picked the best accounts and got rid of the rest. (I do have other guys working in home improvements that I can pull if we get a big job)
I am making more now than in spring.

BUT, I am 45 years old and will not work in the field if I can avoid it.
I do one by myself on Sunday that is just riding for 5 hours and I listen to the game. Other than that the crew will do the work and I will attend to other business.

I would not work by myself all week in this business. WAY too many other ways to make money a whole lot easier.

If you have a well run business with 15 or more guys I know that you can make a lot more than solo. If you only have about 4 guys it is hard to beat the solo guy. You just have to pass the threshold.
 
#21 ·
jfenton said:
What if you get hurt or sick?
drive to the corner and get some labor-or-most of my customers I've had 5,6,8,10 years so they'd understand if I had to miss a week. I went on vacation for 9 days in august, gave planty of notice and all were cool with it.

Also, skiing and other high risk activities are right out, but all the work keeps one in shape and healthy (knock wood).
 
#22 ·
K.Carothers said:
In the spring, I read on here that some of the lco's decided to trim down and go solo. If this was you, did it pay? Would you do it again. Less headaches?
Did you put more in your pocket with less?

Thanks
This post really caught my eye.
I currently have contracts with housing associations and property management agents servicing 60 properties, plus 50 householder accounts. I have worked for the largest of the housing associations for 24 years but they are about to merge with a much larger organisation and I will be unable to bid for the much larger contract which will result, so I have decided to take the opportunity to downsize instead.
These last three years or so employing people has made my life hell. Finding and keeping good employees has been a nightmare. Here in Britain Mr. Blair's New Labour government loves to regulate and control everything and employment legislation gets more and more oppressive for the employer - lots of red tape and regulation, together with health and safety rules that are so 'over the top' that they are a ridiculously bad joke.
So now I'm in the process of firing employees one by one so as to reduce the workforce from 5 employees to none. Next year I'll be working on my own with just one van and set of equipment instead of 3, cherry picking the best jobs within a 3 to 5 mile radius of base. By best jobs I do not necessarily mean the most lucrative, the hassle-factor comes into it as well. I will be able to get up in the morning, have breakfast, walk down the front path to my van, drive off and start earning money, instead of spending the first hour or so of every day sorting out the problems caused by employees not showing up, etc. And another thing I hate is having to repair the damage done by employees to my machines that have cost me so much hard-earned money. Sorry, I'm starting to rant! Hopefully next year I'll be a happier, calmer person instead of a grumpy old man.
 
#23 ·
rodfather said:
I would quit the business entirely before I ever went solo. Period
Curious, how do you find help? Do you have the same help all the time, or different guys coming and going?

I can't imagine doing anything other than solo unless I had a really good friend of mine who was a good worker and could agree to his own risks.

The bottom line is that some people get lucky by finding good, reliable help (probably Rodfather). If you are not lucky and have to scrape the bottom of the toilet for help, you should do yourself and your sanity a big favor and go solo. Who is going to argue with this?

Everybody has a different scenario in their life. There is no "you should do this and not that", Rodfather. But, continue on with your one sentence posts if you must.
 
#24 ·
You know what else is so funny? THere are countless LCO's out there who scrape the toilet for an extra worker or two, not realizing that the added risk, dollar cost, basically the total value of the employee is not worth it when considering the bottom line. If you do everything legal, MOST EMPLOYEES DO NOT ADD ENOUGH VALUE TO THE BUSINESS if you are considering adding more than 2 or so. Adding a whole other crew and truck out on their own???? You better have a personal friendship with more than 50% of the crew or it is simply NOT WORTH THE RISK.

Some guys do this and they get lucky for a couple years...... trust me, given enough time in this type of industry, you will get screwed doing this.
 
#25 ·
My employees are always finding us new employees. It's great for a number of reasons:

1. Their "learning curve" is much shorter in time.
2. The new employees know what I expect of them before they come to work for us.
3. I don't have to do much in the way of the training (their counter parts do it for me).
4. I can't mow over 400 acres alone.

Sorry for the one-line responses...that is how I am.
 
#26 ·
Mr. Magpie said:
You better have a personal friendship with more than 50% of the crew or it is simply NOT WORTH THE RISK.

Some guys do this and they get lucky for a couple years...... trust me, given enough time in this type of industry, you will get screwed doing this.
I have no personal friendship so much with my employees since I am going to be 51 in November and the oldest I employee is 27. Secondly, I guess I have been "lucky" now for 11 straight, full time years doing this way huh...correct me if I have erred please.
 
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