This is what was implied by Rodfather: He has never had an event in the history of his business in which he incurred a cost related to employees besides their pay and insurance.
Is this true? No damaged equipment due to moron operator? No thrown rocks into window? No stealing? No time where an employee disrespected a client and got you fired? No time where an employee didn't show up and you missed work, resulting in a lost client? I could go on and on...... nothing like this in 11 years of lawns and plowing, ect.? Just asking.
Rod, you didn't answer my question about employee turnover rate.
Employees are not friend or acquaintances they are EMPLOYEES. They are to perform a certain job or jobs and be compensated for those task. Will they all be perfect ? NO, but they can all be replaced Bottom line is that if you manage your company and your employees correctly you will become a more efficient company which leads to a larger NET profit.
This is what was implied by Rodfather: He has never had an event in the history of his business in which he incurred a cost related to employees besides their pay and insurance.
Is this true? No damaged equipment due to moron operator? No thrown rocks into window? No stealing? No time where an employee disrespected a client and got you fired? No time where an employee didn't show up and you missed work, resulting in a lost client? I could go on and on...... nothing like this in 11 years of lawns and plowing, ect.? Just asking.
Rod, you didn't answer my question about employee turnover rate.
Broken windows..sure, in fact I have done a few windshields myself and even a bay window once as well from a stone throwm from a trimmer. Damamged equipment due to moron error? Never.
Employees teach the new people that come onboard how to operate the equipment. I cannot "talk" over the noise of a mower that is running for the simple fact I am a larynectomee (my voice box was removed due to a large tumor that was discovered years ago) and I have to use an alternative way to communicate. Stealing? Nope. Dis a customer and I lost them? Not that I am aware of.
I told you about employee turnover. I had one guy early in the season one year who wanted to move back to Missouri to be with his family. He gave me 2 or 3 weeks notice and I thanked him for it big time since it was like in April or early May of that year.
What is so hard to comprehend about how some of us conduct our business I ask? I am sorry that I don't have the horror stories and nighmares many have had in this industry that I could share with you but I DON'T...it is that simple!
Rod,
You have nothing to prove. You are more than generous about offer info and insight regarding your buisness. Thanks for all the good insight you post here on LS.
IMO Rodfather has been very helpful and honest with his posts and info provided. Why would anyone want to attack anothers words unless they hit a nerve. When I was bidding on a really big account I needed a lot of info on plowing and Rodfather and I private emailed for several days sharing ideas and his suggestions were all right on the money (pun intended) . It kind of burns me up when good people make sound decisions and reap the rewards yet people claim as much knowledge of this business with no real knowedge fume and spit on those who know what they are talking about. Don't want employees don't hire them. Want employees, hire them. Who cares what other do? You get what you pay for. I'm legal in all respects and have learned so much here over the 3 years I've been full time. When starting out I had a million questions and found the answer to most here. Many, only experience and time can teach. You don't learn how to bid overnight but rather through trial and error. I have had zero claims for damage in my time in business because I'm careful and employees are as well. My cutters get $15.00 per hour and no I don't work them overtime. Start using a salary instead of hourly and your money will go farther, just one lesson I had to learn the hard way. I'm still a little guy but I'm growing each year. I have a total of over $400,000 in new bids out at this time and they all close end of September. I feel confident about two of them but you never know until they sign on the dotted line. I could double my size if I'm lucky but again who cares except me? If I land all of them I would have to hire two complete crews and 1 more truck and 2 new mowers, another trailer and assorted equipment, who cares except me? Some of you wantabes need to do the math and see if that adds up. I'm only talking to the Chicken Littles out there who cry and complain instead of pursuing new business and taking an active roll in this business. Some of you people need to spend more time working and less time typing. When do you get any work done? It's 6:30 am and I have half a day of work today. Yup Sunday. Get off your collective butts and hit the street. Make your own opportunities and be the master of your own fate. Live the American dream and love what you do or get out of the lawn care business. I don't hate or envy those doing better than me so why do some of you? Hard work is the only success story here and only experience and research will help you find the right answers for you and your future. Thanks for the help in the past Rodfather and keep the faith. Want to slam me folks go ahead but I will be too busy to read your words or for that matter even care. For those of you who "get it": thanks again for all the help over three years.
Tim
THe probem here is that nobody seems to be able to discern attacks and questions here. I even qualified my intentions in one of my posts in which I genuinely wanted good advice from Rodfather.
There is a difference between being skeptical and attacking someone. And, it sure turned out that what Rod implied when he answered my question was not in fact true.
Very true. Some people here are thinking emotionally and not logically.
I am sure Rod has helped others which is great but when Rod starts saying he will do something (i.e. show the books) and doesn't then he is full of bluster. I asked a simple question about his over $22 hour rate and then Rods emotions took off in the highly charged "no one questions me" testosterone direction.
All these comments by others of jealousy,etc. are emotional ridiculous statements just trying to reach for something to defend Rodfather.
Please folks try to separate the emotion from the logic of what is being said.
The basic premise here is a few people can't believe or understand or comprehend paying their help (or someone else doing it, like me) 15 - 25 bucks an hour with some minimal bennies thrown in as well AND making a profit too. To each their own...
I think its better to have a full time or part time helper if you can do it that way. Even if your helper isnt very skilled, you can move much faster on things like shrub trimming because you can have them clean up as you trim.
I am in the middle of trimming over 100 shrubs and I really wish I had some help cleaning up . It would cut my time on this job in half and I would be on other jobs that I had lined up.
For mowing, I have several huge yards that require about 30 minutes of trimming and yet again a helper would cut my time on these yards in half.
I agree completely. I have not been able to find a helper all summer. The very things you mention,(shrub clean up, large yard trimming and edging) are the things that got me in trouble this summer. So, I went another route. I have "dismissed" all of the big accounts to someone else, and I don't take anymore of the shrub jobs. Less money? Sure, but I have replaced these with 3 smaller yards and am completely at ease about my business now and am able to "handle" the load easier. I will be very careful about what I take on from here on and just assume I will be solo.
Trimming down to a solo operation seems that it would be easier than expanding from a solo operation to an employee operation, but with some exceptions.
If you currently have enough accounts to keep an employee, or employees busy, then scaling down to a solo op would surely mean that without dropping any clients, you could be burning the candle at both ends trying to get things done. At least with me, Im approaching this from the other side, and that is that Im operating solo but at times get busy enough where I wish I had a hired hand.
I think that when you scale down to a solo op you really need to reevaluate the efficiency of your operation. When you become an old fart like me, at 51 years old, making things easier becomes paramount though not always a reality. If I could only afford a dump bed and nice toys like that, and those are things that make a solo operation really work.
I can't believe all the replys attacking Rodfather!!! I am only part time but I know many LCOs in my area. the successful ones hire and PAY employees not just day labor. This is hard work and seasonal in many areas. My 17 year old son works with me and he bacame an asset to the business when I put him on commission. He gets a % of the profit for the day so he works just as motivated as I do with a finished product in mind. if your labor force could make enough to carry themselves through the winter with savings then they will be there in the spring to work again. I don't use employees so I am not qualified to speek from experience but I would follow Rodfathers model If I did. Give me 1 dedicated, motivated and high $$ worker and I'll charge enough to cover his cost and my profit and enjoy the day!! my 2 cents
What is so hard to comprehend about how some of us conduct our business I ask? I am sorry that I don't have the horror stories and nighmares many have had in this industry that I could share with you but I DON'T...it is that simple!
I do have the stories as this year has been a bad one but I paid guys $15.00 to run the crews and lost equipment (both by loss and damage) and had jobs not get done and did loss a lot of sleep.
BUT we still had money to cover the hits and still made profit even if it was not what we wanted % wise.
Yes, we have gotten smaller, but we still run crews. As Rod first stated, I would get out before being solo.
I too, find it interesting that in this business guys will fight and defend themselves making little or no profit and attack the man that runs a business and make real profit.
Lots of teens and twenty somethings that may be still at home or just starting out on their own with only a small apt. Seems that these are the ones that agree that no money is OK and 80 - 100 hour weeks for the no money is OK too. . The 40 - 60 year with the $300,000.oo house and kids in school and nice clean cars to get into when the work day is over and they get out of the work truck, and some recreation toys (boats RV's bikes vacation homes) and money left over at the end of the month are the ones that should be listened to.
Time was short for me the last few months and I was not able to visit Lawnsite much, seems a lot has changed and the site is much more argumentative and nasty than before when people where here to help each other build everyones career.
All should focus on the positive!
I do have the stories as this year has been a bad one but I paid guys $15.00 to run the crews and lost equipment (both by loss and damage) and had jobs not get done and did loss a lot of sleep.
BUT we still had money to cover the hits and still made profit even if it was not what we wanted % wise.
Yes, we have gotten smaller, but we still run crews. As Rod first stated, I would get out before being solo.
I too, find it interesting that in this business guys will fight and defend themselves making little or no profit and attack the man that runs a business and make real profit.
Lots of teens and twenty somethings that may be still at home or just starting out on their own with only a small apt. Seems that these are the ones that agree that no money is OK and 80 - 100 hour weeks for the no money is OK too. . The 40 - 60 year with the $300,000.oo house and kids in school and nice clean cars to get into when the work day is over and they get out of the work truck, and some recreation toys (boats RV's bikes vacation homes) and money left over at the end of the month are the ones that should be listened to.
Time was short for me the last few months and I was not able to visit Lawnsite much, seems a lot has changed and the site is much more argumentative and nasty than before when people where here to help each other build everyones career.
All should focus on the positive!
I agree, that when Rodfather talks about his complete lack of employee turnover or equipment failure due to employee mistreatment, that does fly in the face of 99.99% of everyone in this industry.
However, maybe the key actually IS paying the $20+ / hour.
I know my cousin that does concrete / block work, he pays all of his guys $20-35 / hour, full benefits and gives each a company truck.
They do over $2M / year between 3 crews in the block work and 90% of the guys just claim unemployment for the winter.
Most guys around here pay between $15-20 for concrete workers and cannot understand how my cousin can make any money paying guys that much.
About a month ago my cousin bought a new $650k motor home, "for the company".
It can be done paying the higher wages, but to find that worker pool......... THAT is the problem.
1. Before beginning my LCO, I was the Director of Training for Hertz Equipment Rental Corp. hiring, managing, and overseeing a staff of 19 people in 6 different parts of the U.S. I did it successfully for 9 years before I had to leave due to throat cancer and removal of my voice box.
2. As previously mentioned in this thread, as in new business, new employees are all referrals. I have never in 11 years advertised for new business nor for new help.
I know how to manage people and get the best from them. Period
No, This was not a shot at anyone. Just observation of the site.
As for the money issue--What I think is good and what you think is good are most definitely going to be different. As is the amount needed to live the chosen lifestyle of each will be different.
If one is happy with where they are at than that is right and good.
If 40K is what I bring home after working 80-100 hours a week at a job that is very hard labor, for 38 weeks of the year, than no I would not have that job.
Again this is not saying YOU are right or wrong, just how I look at it.
Sorry if offense was taken.
No, This was not a shot at anyone. Just observation of the site.
As for the money issue--What I think is good and what you think is good are most definitely going to be different. As is the amount needed to live the chosen lifestyle of each will be different.
If one is happy with where they are at than that is right and good.
If 40K is what I bring home after working 80-100 hours a week at a job that is very hard labor, for 38 weeks of the year, than no I would not have that job.
Again this is not saying YOU are right or wrong, just how I look at it.
Sorry if offense was taken.
There's stories to everyone's business. I would open my books to if anyone would like, but it doesn't prove anything. Some people would try to rake everything they could out of the business, I'd rather take the money that I would have to pay in wages and buy stuff for my business, so when I get older, I already have the large large purchases, instead of trying to make those AND pay people at the same time.
I believe tax breaks are there for a reason.
I only have a 24 week mowing season, which is 2/3's of your 38, there's no way I'd do this job for 38 weeks / year.
Sorry had not even looked where you were from.
Next 2 months are the busiest for us with aeration and reseeding but we will cut till mid Nov. with a few cuts in Dec. and start lawn care in early Feb.
And if you move down here leave the plow up north.
A forum community dedicated to lawn care and landscaping professionals and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!