Gotta Toro Z-Master in my shop

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by Green-Pro, Jul 2, 2006.

  1. Green-Pro

    Green-Pro LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,420

    You guys that own Toro ZTR's, likes & dislikes?

    My dealer and Scag had a parting of the ways, now he no longer deals in Scags. He said Toro offered him a helluva deal to become an exclusive Toro dealer. He has been after me to demo one and I finally have had time to bring one home. I used it on a variety of lawns so far, but am not at all impressed with its power, or should I say lack of. The machine is a 23 hp Kohler with a 52" deck, cuts really sweet but has a terrible time climbing hills and grades in regards to engine power (not machine stability). I currently have a TT 23hp/lc Kaw 52" and a TC 19hp kaw 48", neither of which lacks any power. I mentioned the lack of power to my dealer and he agreed, it seems underpowered to him also, he planned on speaking to his rep about the whys and possible solutions.
    Like I said the machine cut really nice, was comfortable, and handled well with the exception of HP. I mean does the 23HP Kaw really outperform the 23HP Kohler that much? Anybody else have issues with engine hp in regards to the Toro ZTR's?
  2. ToroLandscaper

    ToroLandscaper LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,177

    I have owned both a kawasaki and a kohler engine...the kawasaki was a 17Hp on a 52" WB it was a bit underpowered (TORO Proline) i own a 52" Toro Zmaster with a 27Hp kohler which is NOT underpowered at all. I have bogged it down MAYBE ONCE in the year that i have had it...I LOVE IT! comparing kawasaki to kohler engines in general i think that i liked that kawasaki was ALOT quiter. My kohler i have had NO problems out of but it is a little loud.

    If you are looking at a 52" zmaster toro i would STRONGLY suggest looking at a 27Hp kohler..also dont you love the turbo force deck...i cant see myself owning anything other! the only thing that interest me other then toro is hustler but i dont really see myself owning one becouse the dealer around here sucks and also there kinda priced high.
  3. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    The 23 Kohler is not in the same class as the 23 Kawi.

    The 23 Kohler gets used becasue it's cheap, cheap cheap!
  4. ProStreetCamaro

    ProStreetCamaro LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,289

    :laugh: You cant be serious? :hammerhead:

    The 23 kaw on my Tank M48 is a pig compared to the 18 kohler on our lazer hp 48". RPMS drop like crazy going up hills on the Tank but the rpm's stay steady on the lazer and the lazer has 2,400 hours on it and the tank has 55 hours. We have made up our mind that this is the LAST machine we will ever buy with a kawisucky. Kohlers have always treaded us much better than the kaws we have owned.

    TURF DOCTOR LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,138

    Kaw makes a 23 lc new one on me.
  6. Green-Pro

    Green-Pro LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,420

    TT with a 23 LC/Kaw, yep they used to make one and I got one. Discontinued model though. My TT is an '05.

    I don't think the Kohlers are cheap engines, but it really puzzles me that there can be that much difference between the 2 engines. LC vs. AC shouldn't make that significant a difference in regards to power IMHO. Fact remains though when I tried the Toro on one of our props with the most severe incline it wanted to flat out lay down on me. The kaw doesn't even seem to be breathing hard on the same hill, doesn't miss a beat.
    Tomorrow I'm sending the Toro out with one of the guys in the crew to check other opinions. Actually I will likely have him cut with it all week, we are demoing this particular machine all this week.
    Like I said, the reason I'm looking at it is because our Scag dealer is now exclusively Toro. We will be replacing the TC end of this season and possibly bringing on an additional mower as well. I hate to leave the dealer in the town we are primarily working in. Add to that he has been outstanding as our dealer anyway.
  7. topsites

    topsites LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 21,653

    I would tend to agree insofar that the Kawasaki would likely be the better engine (well I dunno, never owned one), but I will also say the Kohler running synthetic oil is no joke.

    Both my Wb's have the 15hp, and my rear-tine Troybilt tiller has an older 8hp Kohler.
    Kohler's don't play, they're a very nice engine and I've heard say their owners will cry if they ever seize one up because around here, they run a thousand dollars installed.

    But if you're willing to mail-order, where else can you find such a nice 15hp engine for $500?
  8. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    I should rephrase that.....They ARE in the same class.

    Both are 675cc engines.

    The Kawi has 39.8 lb/ft of torque.


    The Kohler has 37.9 lb/ft of torque.

    The 23 Kawi used to hold it's own against 725cc engines not to many years ago.
  9. lawnboy dan

    lawnboy dan LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,716

    i have a 2001 44 z master w/23 koler and its not underpowered at all.
  10. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,943

    :D NICE !!!

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