Grub apps and mole control

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by grassmasterswilson, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. grassmasterswilson

    grassmasterswilson LawnSite Platinum Member
    from nc
    Messages: 4,988

    I see a lot of companies saying that there grub application also works as mole control. I've always thought that earthworms were the main food source.

    I'm sure that decreasing the grubs would aid in decreased food supply for moles. So would a merit application (June here) done as a preventative have any effect? Could you really market the app this way and be able to back it up?

    Just curious as my app side expands and I get more calls for moles b
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  2. grassman177

    grassman177 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,795

    i dont think so, it just lessens the chances
  3. jbell36

    jbell36 LawnSite Bronze Member
    from KANSAS
    Messages: 1,416

    i'm curious on this too...i've heard both ways...we have had a lot of calls about moles, it would be nice to say a grub app will help control moles if it is actually true...i'm pretty sure moles are looking for earth worms though, i took a class on chemicals years ago and i'm pretty sure that was one of the subjects covered, because i had always thought they were looking for grubs...i think the teacher said it's skunks that will dig for grubs
  4. turfmd101

    turfmd101 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,376

    The insecticide used to kill grub also kills earthworm. Insecticides don't discriminate. The theory of...get rid of food source...get rid of pest.
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  5. Jason Rose

    Jason Rose LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,858

    Controling grubs to control moles is something ingranied into most peoples heads, I believe due to scotts fertilizer co. I've had MANY insist that it will work, and I've yet to see a grub preventative or post (dylox) have any effect on the mole populatlion. Trap the moles or try talporid baits, which are shaped like earthworms, oddly enough, lol

    Insicitides these days are very much targeted to specific pests. Chemicals that kill earthworms have been all but removed from the market. Seven will kill them, but its not the target pest, and if you get caught targeting earthworms as a "pest" I'm sure your friendly department of ag inspector would be interested in knowing this...
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  6. unit28

    unit28 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,554

    Makes no sense to me to use baits as an attractant.
    Poison worms and poison peanuts are an attractant that brings them in to feed. i do not want them coming in
    as much as I want them going...away.

    Should eathworms be controlled?..of course.
    I like snippets.

    Oh look, here's one now.

    (worm excrement) can increase erosion along irrigation ditches.
    In the urban setting, earthworm burrows can cause lumpy lawns.

    Relative to simplified ecosystems such as agricultural and urban/suburban soils, earthworm-free hardwood forests in Minnesota have a naturally loose soil with a thick duff layer. Most of our native hardwood forest tree seedlings, wildflowers, and ferns grow best in these conditions. However, when earthworms invade they actually increase the compaction of hardwood forest soils. Compaction decreases water infiltration. Less infiltration combined with the removal of the duff and fallen tree leaves results in increased surface runoff and erosion.
  7. Jason Rose

    Jason Rose LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,858

    Baits don't attract them, you put the baits in their runs, they come across them just like they would any other worm, they eat them and die...

    I agree that earthworms/nightcrawlers can be a real problem in lawns, we have problems with them here for sure. Specifically targeting earthworms, which are classified as a benificial insect, is frowned upon and may be illegal now. Most insecticides that kill insects deemed benificial are no longer on the market... If you need to control earthworms however I know that Seven, clearys 3336 fungicide, and one other I can't think of off hand do inadvertently kill earthworms. There's a warning on the labels now even.
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  8. grassmasterswilson

    grassmasterswilson LawnSite Platinum Member
    from nc
    Messages: 4,988

    Thanks guys. That pretty much confirms my thoughts.

    I also know there is a split in the industry on treating for grubs. Some guys include it in the normal programs and some say only treat when problems arise.

    I treat as needed and don't do much of it. I'm redoing my program in the winter and thinking about including it as an optional service that I advertise. Was thinking as a sales tactic saying something in the description about "may help suppress moles" or something(the old get rid of food get rid of moles thought) would increase sales. Just don't want to be misleading.
  9. jbturf

    jbturf LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,503

    personally i would not go that route, not only is it misleading, it may come back to bite you from a disgruntled customer

    think about how ur customer will read and percieves your advert

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