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Guys and their *pop-ups*

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by DVS Hardscaper, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. loupiscopolandscaping

    loupiscopolandscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    i agree if the system is installed correctly in an area where it can be used. its a great system, but clients budget is another thing.
  2. soopa

    soopa LawnSite Member
    from NY
    Messages: 132

    Last night I went and checked on a pop-up we installed, I've had the same concerns as some here and with the freeze-thaw cycle in full effect here in Upstate, NY I wanted to see if I needed to be concerned...

    The popup was indeed covered by ice/snow and was frozen shut. It took a good bit of effort to get the emitter to work again. Once I got her opened up though I was surprised to find a wide open pipe... no water or ice...
  3. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    Ok, we're getting what I would call "qualified" feedback. Someone actually got his butt up front infront of his computer, put his boots on, and went outside!

    The pop up was frozen shut as I had expressed concern with.


    So now we're putting a drywell around the emitter for occurrences such as soopa has shared.

    All that makes perfect sense to me.

    But......say you have multiple downspouts connected to one emitter.

    The top is froze shut.

    So now that dump valve is doing what it's intended to do.

    Lets be conservative and say we have 2 d/s connected to one emitter. Lets say we got a 12-inch snowfall.

    And to be realistic, unless there is a heavy down pour of rain (as we had in Jan 1996 after we had 30" of snow), I realize the snow does not magically melt all at once.

    The pop up is frozen shut. This emitter is taking water from 2 downspouts off of a big roof. The dump valve is spilling the water into the ground.

    Ok, well.......is the drywell large enough to handle the volume that the dump valve is discharging????

    See, there are calculations for the size of a drywell based on the square footage of the roof.

    And to do this correctly.......you might as well install a drywell and be done with it!

    Our area has clay soils.
  4. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    Ok, you pop up fools, don't think I'm gonna let this go away!!

    You'll be flattered to see I'm updating ths thread with some freshly taken, compelling photograghs out my kitchen door!

    We just got 30-inches of wet snow dumped on us.

    Those of you that say "well the homeowner needs to do some maintenance...." - LOL yeah - I can see Helen Homeowner out there right now in 30-inches of snow (not factoring in the deeper areas from drifting) fishing all over the yard, in her paper thin work jeans and snow boots that only come up to her ankles, trying to located the blasted pop up that ex-lawn jockey turned expert construction-head installed 3 years ago!!!!!

    And oh! Not to mention how toned the average homeowner's muscles are to pushing and digging snow!

    Or - Frank and Helen Homeowner have since sold the property and now the new owners John and Hilda are supposed to know to go unearth the TRUSTY pop ups that were installed 4 years ago by some super duper looper patio expert!!!!

    yeah....I can see it now.....The poor homeowner calling in sick to work because they have pulled chest muscles and are so sore from digging out 30+ inches of snow to unearth that pop up emitter that was supposed to solve all the problems and make life so enjoyable............


  5. Dirt Boy

    Dirt Boy LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 489

    Great thoughts on pop-ups!

    Couple of thoughts/comments:
    1. Seems to me no matter what kind of drain you have, if you are in the freeze/thaw cycle's that go on day after day, your drain pipe is going to be filled up with ice anyway you look at it. Right? You have a pipe that is buried in the frozen ground, you have snow/ice water running down the roof, into the cold metal downspout, then into a colder pipe buried in the frozen ground, then running umpteen feet to air or dry well, and it's going to make it all that way still in liquid form??

    2. On our church building, it has main roof (metal) which can dump onto lower level roof which are membrane covered, plus snow, etc. that collects on them, and they then have vertical drains which run down the inside of the brick wall and out a foot or two above ground height (hope that all makes sense) and MANY times they have a solid frozen chunk at the exit. And they are on the south side of the building!

    I guess I just don't see that you're going to keep it from happening (being frozen) period.

    Like others have said, many times there is no option to "daylight" the end. So, IMO, if you can't daylight, then a dry well and popup is about the most practical way to go about it. And if you have clay soil .....

    Anyway, I'm going to go look at a couple I did just for the fun of it.

    And that's my rant for the day!:)
  6. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    The warm water coming off a roof will most likely melt any chunks of ice that are in a pipe.

    But take a pop up thats burried in 20 to 30-inches of snow - and that's a different story.

    Don't worry, more compelling photos coming :)

  7. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,260

    wow 6 pages on pop up emitters.. I always just day light the downspouts or create a drywell. Paver scraps are good to use in the drywell mixed in with 2" stone.
  8. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    Yeah, hard to drill common sense into the heads of some.

    "well, you just put in that there pop up, collect your money, away you go, and the homeowner will jus have to get off their butt and dig away to keep them pop ups workin........."
  9. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,260

    DVS you ever use paver scraps for the drywell? I know some guys frown about this, but i beleive in being green and recycling. Almost on every project we have some type of drain running to a dry well. If I do 8 projects a year I might haul scraps out on 2.
  10. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,576

    Here's what I guess we could call an "elevation photo".

    When it comes to mother nature, you never know what she'll bring for us.

    Yeah, I can see Helen Homeowner out there digging through such depth to unearth the trusty 'ol pop up emmitter while her husband Frank is out of town on a business trip.........


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