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Hate to ask

Discussion in 'Business Operations' started by summitgroundskeeping, Jul 10, 2001.

  1. GrassMaster

    GrassMaster Senior Member
    Messages: 447

    Hello Everybody:

    It's been a long time ago, butt 15 years ago I asked a Lawyer about being sued & getting Incorporated.

    In the State of Georgia being Incorporated & getting sued has nothing to do with each other. If you get sued they sue until they break the Corporation, then they go after you personally. If you want to be protected try getting more insurance, all I have to do is eat a Hamburger & 2 hours later I'm getting sued. No Kidding, I've only been sued 4 times 1995, which is not bad, LOL?

    Probably cost less than a few hundred a year to bump from $100K to $500K coverage maybe even 1 million. If I was in business & did anything much less have company vehicles I couldn't sleep at night? I carry $500K on my personal vehicles (4) & I don't even have a company vehicle. The $500K cost me I think $67.50 every 6 months because I already had maybe $50K to start with. $50K is Chicken feed if you on the road. Lotsa cars are $50K now. This extra Insurance saved me Plenty Bucks & wear & tear on my Heart!

    I would not want a target such as Inc. on anything I own, it's just asking to get sued. Folks already think if you self employed you rich. Then you slap INC. on the end well it's time to break out the Knee Pads. The same Low Lifes that gave you all this good advise (Lawyer that helped you get Incorperated) well his kind is the same that will take the baby bottle out of your babys mouth.

    I do not want Lawyers & CPA's knowing my business because for everyone that does they tell another 50 each. Cost a lot less & saves you a lot of BS. They do talk to others about your business.

    The Lawyer also told me unless I was paying my self over $100K a year it would be more trouble than it's worth. Any man that makes over $100K a year & reports it, well he deserves to be sued.

    The reason I became self employed was in 1994 I had to pay $34,000 in taxes & I worked for the other man. LOL, I was real stupid. I then got audited by IRS & had to pay another $2,000 I think. I decided that I could live better if I was Self Employed & I control what I pay. I've only been audited twice & both times is the only year I used a CPA? Go Figure, they tell you to do this &
    deduct this. Knowing you will get audited & then they become your friend. LOL

    You know maybe if Million Dollar plus company. But only way. If God gave you enough sense to make money, he surely gave you enough sense to figure out how to handle it. If you can do the first but not the second it's time to change what you do for a living.

    Check out statistics & see how many CPA's bankrupt it's staggering. I know how to make it & I know what to do with it? I don't need some stranger telling me what to do with it. They are just over paid people & they can't make a living with out you? A Fact!

    All of this is true life experiences & I've been there & done that. I learned the hard way & I'm still learning the hard way. :)
  2. Sean Adams

    Sean Adams LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,597

    No attorney...no accountant...
    Sued 4 times since 1995
    Audited 2 times since 1995

    I am not being critical, I'm just questioning your advice. I think from experience that business owners should focus on being just that - a business owner. I'm not saying don't "mind" your own business (know your numbers, etc...) but being protected is the only thing that will allow you to continue being self-employed.

    It is a search-process. Not all attorneys and accountants are misinformed, gossips. Truth is, I doubt they find your business exciting enough to discuss with others. Maybe it works for you, and to each his own, but to say that acquiring professional services is a waste of time and money is going overboard. Just my opinion. How do you "break a corporation" by sueing it over and over again?

    Sean Adams
  3. GrassMaster

    GrassMaster Senior Member
    Messages: 447

    Please go to bathroom, Get a cup of Coffee, Beer or whatever it's your choice, if you are going to read this

    Ok, GrAssMaster needs to apologize if he offended anyone & correct one Error he made in his post. I'm sorry for the error & I try hard to make sure I don't make any errors, buy even I do so, due to me being in a hurry yesterday! OOPS, Sorry about that Lawnsite members!

    GrAssMaster said Quote
    >>The reason I became self employed was in 1994<<
    The date is wrong & it was very miss leading. It should have been 1984. Big Difference.

    >>No attorney...no accountant...<<
    I never said not to use one, I've personally had bad experiences with them? That's all. For some unforeseen reason I have bad Luck.

    >>Sued 4 times since 1995<<
    This is how easy things can go wrong! This can happen to anyone no matter how careful they are.

    1. It all started back in 1995. An employee of mine at my repair shop had the company Truck on a late Saturday afternoon. He was in a 2 lane turn to the left, the truck & another car barely touched each other. No ticket was written, virtually no damage & nobody hurt. Week later the driver of car LOL was at work, she stood up at her desk & screamed out, fell backwards & busted the back of her head open. Doctor said she had been in trauma from wreck for week. Insurance company settled out of court for $25,000 dollars. My Insurance was Cancelled I had all insurance in one deal (what I mean is all with one company).

    2. 2 ½ years ago my daughter turned to the left & a car struck her, it was her fault? It was a hard curve, speed limit was 45 the 97 Lincoln slid over 150 feet on highway & then another 75 to 85 feet down in the ditch (how fast was this guy driving?). Totaled the Lincoln & all it did was bust daughters headlight out. But the driver was not hurt, but he walked to top of ditch he had a massive heart attach. He should not have even been driving. He was 73 years old, diabetic, disabled vet & had already had 2 massive Heart Attacks. Do you think this person should have been driving. NO WAY? After Drivers wife & Lawyer talked to us, they decide not to sue us. LOL, my Insurance company paid for Lincoln & all of a sudden Medicaid sued me for Hospital bills. He, 30 days after wreck had to have pace maker & 9 months of therapy. Medicaid sued for $41,000 & won. If I only had the States minimum required liability. Which is either $25K or $35K I would have been in a mess. But me knowing how folks are got the $500K liability on all family vehicles when daughter started driving. What can Happen, will Happen, with me it always does.
    BTW: Insurance Cancelled Again, My Premiums are Killing me!

    3. This past October my daughter rear ended a car, about $500 in damage the other car had a scratch or 2 . LOL, all three people had to go to hospital with Neck & Back injuries (the air bags didn't even go off)? This Lawsuit is still in litigation, my track record the insurance will be cancelled again.

    4. Well this is nothing but a BS Lawsuit I inherited when my father died, It's about a Lifetime estate with one of his brothers & another Sister in law. It just adds onto the other three.

    Now the lawsuits above, was I careless & what did I do that was so wrong? LOL I shouldn't let my daughter drive. But what else did I do that was wrong? What I was trying to say in my first post was this Scenario could happen to anybody, couldn't it? I probably shouldn't even own a car.

    >> Audited 2 times since 1995<<
    I apologize for my error, it should have 1984 not 95. Butt 84 is the right year. I'm almost 47 years old & I've been audited twice, my first time I was 23 years old & second was 1995. That's not bad at all filling out the long form for all those years & audited twice in 24 years? Excellent!

    >>I'm not being critical, I'm just questioning your advice.<<
    I did not give advice, I just told what happened to me. My last 2 sentences of first post: All of this is true-life experiences & I've been there & done that. I learned the hard way & I'm still learning the hard way.

    >>But being protected is the only thing that will allow you to continue being self-employed.<<
    This is 100% what I was saying. Get Plenty of Insurance, this is something that a lot of Business's neglect to do?

    >> In the very first post of the original poster he said Quote: I mean I'm getting to the point in "business size" "incompetent help" where I'd be more likely to get sued.<<
    It appeared that this person thinks that being incorporated will somehow protect him from lawsuits. I was again just giving my real life experiences. Because of what I was told by a Lawyer about being Incorporated & Being sued. If not enough money in the corporation, it will bankrupt first then they will go after the owners personal assets, till they get what they want? This as far as I know is true. I do stand to be corrected, just that telling him how, when & where to accomplish getting Incorporated was not the only & right answer? Not once was getting more Liability Insurance was mentioned, I honestly thought by me telling him what has happened to me would help.

    >>It is a search-process. Not all attorneys and accountants are misinformed, gossips. Truth is, I doubt they find your business exciting enough to discuss with others.<<
    This is the way I see it? Good ole boy has a Rich Mother & he works for her developing subdivisions they both make big bucks. Nobody cares about that. Mr. Soandso owns a big electrical company & makes millions every year. Nobody cares about that either. But you let Jerry Jenkins cut $500,000 worth of grass a year, believe me everybody talks. This is very true? But no not all are Gossips.

    I would not think they find it exciting but they find it puzzling & they can't figure out how this guy cuts so much grass & makes so much money? This is very true, just ask others? Now this lawyer, CPA & all their employees know & they just can't figure it out & they talk to each other, their friends, spouses. 100's will know in a years time by just telling these 2 professionals. It's baffling to others how a Yard Man can make so much money?

    >>Maybe it works for you, and to each his own, but to say that acquiring professional services is a waste of time and money is going overboard.<<
    I never said that? I've used them myself & have had bad experiences. Before I get Lawyer or CPA, I think I will stick with getting a little over Insured? Then worry about the other?

    >>Just my opinion. How do you "break a corporation" by sueing it over and over again?<<
    Now I could be wrong on this but: This is only one of 100's of scenarios that can happen to anybody.

    Jerry Jenkins Landscaping Services Inc. has just hired Crack Head & doesn't know it. Ok Crack Head geeks out at lunch & on the way to next job he rear ends car going 45 miles an hour with Company Truck & Trailer & 2 people get badly hurt. Jerrys in Georgia & his Corporation is worth $100,000 total & he has only $100,000 in insurance. He totals the $65,000 Corvette & the hospital bills are $85,000 & both people are suing for $100,000 each for mental & physical pain, suffering & anguish,
    Plus legal fees.

    Please remember they go after Crack Head first, but he has no assets. So they go after the owner of the company truck. That's the way it works here? Hey I could be wrong & the laws could have changed. Used to in the old days they could only ruin the Corporation & not go after the owner personally? Things change. Georgia laws might be different now? What do I know?

    OK Jerry Jenkins Landscaping Services Inc. is being sued for $350,000 plus legal fees. OK his insurance company fights it hard & goes to court for Jerry. Insurance company looses lawsuit. They pay only the $100,000 because that's all the company is insured for. OK, now Lawyers sue Jerry for balance of lawsuit, plus legal fees. Again they win, Jerry sells out all of $100,000 corporation. OK, Jerry has done mighty well being the Yard Guy & has a nice house & all that other stuff. His Corporation is Bankrupt Dissolved, his Insurance company has already paid the first $100,000. BTW: When insurance company pays that first $100,000 that's admission of guilt & rest must be paid if possible. Jerrys Corporation is bankrupt, now where is that other $150,000 plus legal fees coming from? LOL, maybe they let him keep house depends on the law. But now they go after his personal assets. Ok by now Johnny has a bankrupt corporation, a divorce & a big empty house & no money. Now what? Shoot if I know.

    Why didn't Jerry have enough sense to carry a Million Dollars worth of Liability Insurance. This way he would not have lost anything? Except Insurance Company & Crack Head Employee. LOL, Crack Head decides after the Original lawsuit to sue Jerry because his trailer had no brakes on it? It can always get worse?

    This is why I voiced my Real Life experiences, only a fool would solely listen to someone on the Internet. I can't give advise, because I'm still learning the hard way. I was just trying to help no more & no less. I've re read the first post & again I recommend to get plenty of Insurance, if you are incorporated or not you still need it. If you are worried about "incompetent help" & if you think about it, it only makes sense to me. The only thing that will cover the careless or for that fact a Good employee is plenty of Insurance. Think about this if it was that easy & all you had to do was get Incorporated & you don't have to worry about being sued " Who in the World would buy Insurance?"

    Hey that will be $100 & that's cheap to what a Lawyer or CPA would charge for this kind of advise & it's exactly what they would advise, at least I hope so, LOL?
  4. Guido

    Guido LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,087

    He dun did it again!!

    Grassmaster with the fingers of steel!! ;)
  5. Sean Adams

    Sean Adams LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,597

    Wow. Had to stop and stretch half-way through. Insurance is important, tax laws and benefits are important, attorneys serve a purpose, accountants serve a purpose, even incorporating your business serves a purpose ------just not for everyone.
  6. GrassMaster

    GrassMaster Senior Member
    Messages: 447

    Hello Everybody:

    LOL, I would like to file a Complaint. :)

    A 10,000 character limit on post, this is unfair to the GrAssMaster AKA "Fingers of Steel". I wonder if this was just set for me? So is this fair to the GrAssMaster? So now all some one has got to do is make a puney post of 10,000 characters & they are AKA the "Fingers of Steel". Crying & Whining GrAssMaster thinks the Limit should be bumped up to 20,000! It's Sunday & I think I'll take a Little Cheese with that Whine.

    I wonder if it was that "Double Blade Dude" :) LOL, he came close the other day on a Real Long Post (Butt not long enough, Bah Ha Ha Ha Ha) & I did Boof about it a little though. Oh well, Oh BTW I had to shave about 800 characters off of it. Let me see Part 1, Part 2, LOL Part 3, Page 1, Page 2, Part 3 & etc...

    Get yo Behind Covered Real Good because Johhny Q Public wants yo Money & then Some (he's the Guy parked in front of ya at that Red Light or that Poor Devil that my Daughter or one of my Employees is fixing to turn in front of) :)
  7. Island Lawn

    Island Lawn LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 632

    not giving advice, just the way I do it! LOL

    Sole prop.
    Small 'taters
    1Mil liability

    Since Jan, 2001.
    no lawsuits or claims or audits...yet!!

    Last year, I went to a CPA to do my taxes.
    I did all the work and she filled in the blanks for her fee.
    This year, I'm going to fill in my own blanks!
  8. GrassMaster

    GrassMaster Senior Member
    Messages: 447

    Hello Everybody:

    You Da Man Island Lawn & Sounds like you Is Very Smart!!!!!

    LOL, have you got any Large Commercial or Industrial Accounts?

    Let me see what will I write off this year?

    Walkie Talkies - They are Great at the Beach or for the Kids in the Neighborhood!
    4 Wheelers or Golf Carts - They are just Great Toys!
    Big Screen TV's (LOL, Digital), Cameras, Cam Corders, VCR's, yep you got to make Company Presentations, Safety Films & How to Videos for the Employees.
    Motor Homes for those real bad Days!

    The List could go forever!

    One of the Greatest Feelings in the World is Being Self Employeed & Being Succsssful at it!

    One of the Biggest things that gets People Audited & Sends a Red Flag to IRS is when your Income Drastically Changes either direction.

    Don't let them come to you when they Audit you because they got Sharp Eyes & can tell a lot by the way you live.

    Keep the Best set of Books you can till you do your taxes. Then stir it all up, shake it all around till you do the IRS Hokey Pokey & then keep that Terrible Mess in a Yep that's right a Lawn Mower Box so it will be easy to tote to IRS.

    It might take you a hour or so to find that one Paper but remember you are Paying their Salary & if they want to Shaft you for a Large Bonus, Well they will negotiate for far less. They have all the time in the world.

    Then one of the Biggest Mistakes the Self Employed makes is they never pay themselves any Cash so where do they get that from, since they have no records of ever getting any cash? Pay yourself some cash if you want to make them happy.

    Don't feel bad about any of it either, do you think those folks go home tired or come even close to working as hard as you. If IRS was all that interested in the Money that is owed to them, well they would just go to a flat tax Rate.

    They have it all, Great Salaries, Benefits, Medical & Hospitalization. And who pays for all of it, WE DO & their Main Priority is they try to take it away from you. They can't go to a flat tax because it would put about 750,000 of them out of work.

    Then LOL, they would not have a job & some would become Self Employed then they would have to go through all the Crap we do?

    You know this Happens every once in a while T00, I wonder if they Audit somebody & find out they over paid do they really go to a Bunch of trouble & make sure that person gets a Fast & Prompt Refund? Yep I just Cracked a Big Funny!

    Now I wonder how large their Team is that Looks Just for People that overpaid on their taxes, so they can correct this error? I must stop now, I'm about to die laughing! :)

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