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Hemp; Sustainability and all that stuff

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by Tim Wilson, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    First of all I’d like to call a spade a spade. The cannabis plant has some remarkable medicinal qualities, as a raw floral product and through its naturally extracted essential oils (concentrated molecular compounds). In the first instance in many cases people self medicate or use recreationally in similar fashion to alcohol. However, there are many others who smoke or otherwise use cannabis to calm tremors caused by a variety of diagnoses. This is no ruse. I have seen this with my own eyes. People whose hands shake so badly that they cannot eat or dress have a draw on a joint or pipe, their tremors calm almost instantly and they can function. Others use this to be able to walk and talk.

    I was in a bar years ago and the band was setting up to play. There was a fellow with them who obviously had a tremor disease (palsy, MS, CP, etc.). I asked him if he was a friend of the band. He said ‘no, I’m the bass player’. He invited me outside where I watched him smoke a joint (no I don’t smoke) and chatted. He transformed into a non-disabled person before my eyes. Believe me, I know what it’s like to be disabled; I’ve had Arthrogryposis from birth. He walked back inside and played the bass guitar like he was born to it. He did not seem stoned to me. He is not a loser, phony nor rope smoker. In similar fashion there are many others who get a wide range of medicinal relief from utilizing cannabis. Arthritics, quadriplegics, aids patients, chemotherapy patients to name a few.

    This, however is nothing compared to the second higher level medicinal use of the concentrated compounds of the cannabis plant being used to treat cancer. There are many anecdotal stories of complete remission from terminal cancer, mostly in Canada where it is easier to acquire good quality extract. Of course this is not scientific evidence. There is serious research taking place in various places worldwide on the reducing effects of cannabinoids on cancer cells. I have listed some links and citations below concerning this.

    By the way, it is a myth that THC is the only pharmacological agent in cannabis.

    Treegal, I usually see eye to eye with you but there is a lot of stigmatizing in labeling hemp supporters as rope smokers. Although, I am uncomfortable working with potheads, I can say the same about daytime alcohol drinkers. I do agree with you about trying to grow a variety of plants but damn, cannabis/hemp will grow in just about anything and JD you are dead wrong about it robbing the soil of nutrients if grown naturally and sustainably. Haven’t you heard that it grows like a weed, year after year in the same patch if left to its own devices?

    The cannabis plant could go a long way to relieving a lot of problems in North America and throughout the world. For example; It can be grown in combination with companion food entities, like edible mushrooms; the mushrooms will feed the hemp, the hemp will shade the mushrooms and the mushrooms are a tremendous source of nutrition (and immunity boost) to people. If the farmer has propagated through cuttings (will need seeds every 5 to 7 years) when the female flowers are ripe they are harvested, dried and sold/shipped for medicinal use. This could be government or NGO regulated with tremendous economic benefit. When the flowers are medicinally ripe the leaves turn yellow and fall to the ground, returning organic matter to the soil. The remaining plant can then be harvested by hand or machine and shipped for fuel or fiber and or the farmer can make on farm fuel. The choices for fuel production include methanol, butanol or ethanol and methane. Commercially, the production of methanol is a little costly and engines need to be re-fitted to burn it but butanol is made from cellulose naturally by microbes called Clostridium acetobutylicum. This occurs through a fermentive process which is a little complicated and slow but there is ongoing research to improve the speed, results and to find other microbes which will work more voraciously. Besides using some of the plant material in a methane digester along with algae and other plants to produce instantly utilized fuel (for power generation, heat, charging batteries, etc.), the farmer who plans carefully can use cellulose plant material to create portable highly useable ethanol.

    To backtrack a little, butanol is pound for pound identical property-wise to gasoline. It burns the same, puts out as much power and no conversion is necessary. It is derived from cellulose as previously described. Ethanol is alcohol made from distilled carbohydrates (sugar, starches) just like the good stuff grampa usta make. It can be burned in regular combustion engines with very small alterations. It does not put out the same power as gasoline or butanol and does not get the same (energy application) mileage. It also absorbs water if given half a chance. Ethanol is a perfect fuel for on farm use in gasoline engines and is easily transported in containers. Methane is a gas (not liquid) and is easily produced with a digester which can be boosted exponentially with a simple algae generator (grower). Methane must be used on the spot unless you have very expensive compression and condenser equipment. It burns readily in most diesel engines and natural gas/propane operated devices. Because it must be used on the spot, power generation is its most practical application. It can run a diesel generator all day charging batteries. Efficient, non polluting batteries and electric vehicles and farm machinery would be logical developments for industry to undertake. By the way methane is produced by my new friends archaea.

    Now back to our farmer who cannot afford the equipment to store methane in tanks, wants to use some of his crop residue to distill into ethanol. He could easily afford the cost of plans and equipment to build an efficient still but he needs carbohydrates (sugar) to distill for ethanol, not cellulose. Lucky thing he is a smart farmer and knows that certain gourmet edible mushrooms like to feed on cellulose and create, as waste, carbohydrates. So he uses his chipper/grinder (ethanol or electric operated) to shred some of the hemp (mixed with other plant material laying about) into his mushroom growing barn (or outside). Once the mushrooms are harvested, he can use the material to make ethanol. The material left over in the digester for the ethanol still and methane digester can be fed to livestock or composting worms. The worm composted material (either from the digester or passed through the livestock first) is spread back on the growing area to contribute to the organic matter which feeds the mushrooms which feed the plants (which feed the microbes) and microbes which feed the mushrooms and the plants; some of course, for the vegetable plot too. Because our farmer is smart (having gone to JGU [Just a Guy University] were he earned his DHP [density hath posterity]) he knows to leave the dead root system from when he harvested the hemp intact in the ground. Not only does it contribute organic matter to feed the microbes which feed the mushrooms and plants which feed the microbes but when the DHP farmer allowed the plant to die (or killed it) with the roots intact left in the soil, he caused the associated Glomus mossae (sp?) endomycorrhizal and other related fungi to sporulate so there are gazillions of spores set to infect the new plantlings come spring. To be sure of infection rates a couple of root systems are dug up chopped and used as inoculant on the plantling roots.

    Now, is this not reasonably sustainable?

    Tim Wilson, dHP

    Here are some links; some redundancy













    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  2. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Messages: 2,636

    Farming it for use as clothing, medicine, and fuel is hardly natural or sustainable.
  3. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Messages: 2,636

    That is a lot of blabber without actually identifying how much the farmer harvests compared to how much he replenishes. Quantify your numbers (via biomass, to be simple) and then I would consider taking this approach seriously.

    You are not Mr. Nice are you? Although...
  4. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 795


    It is my uneducated opinion that you do not have enough digits in your IQ to comprehend most concise, rational discussion and you are more here in the role of something like an Internet Troll rather than to learn. I will, therefore, no longer be replying to anymore of your posts nor emails. If you had ever lived on a family farm you would have your own answer. The poop you make is equal to the poop you take. Quantum physics.
  5. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Messages: 2,636


    Per http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=239364

    I was simply asking you for more information. Is that not the point of discussion?
  6. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,056

    Gotta love it!
  7. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Messages: 2,636

  8. Mr. Nice

    Mr. Nice LawnSite Member
    from zone 7
    Messages: 155

    Perhaps Tim has done his own research already.

    Maybe it would be a good idea a this point to do your own.
  9. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Messages: 2,636

    Perhaps so.

    Have you ever read the booklet 'Skill with People'? I wont explain, but why should I research hemp? Oh, I shouldn't. It has no relevancy to what I am currently interested in.

    If you guys think hemp is so good that I should research it then it is your responsibility to interest me to do so. So far the selling/marketing has not been very appealing. But if Tim can show me that a farmer gets a significant amount of product out of a no loss farming system I would LOVE to learn more.

    The propagator has the responsibility of generating interest and so far... eh.

    I even tipped him off on how he could capture my interest.

    Btw... Law of conservation of energy = doubts
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  10. Barefoot James

    Barefoot James LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 984

    That's all you got?

    Your posts vs Tims experience?

    Had to chime in sort of a goofy place to draw a line in the sand.

    BTW Tim's experience/research:cool2: made me tens of thousands of $$$'s in 2008 - on a $500 investment!

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