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How much P for fall seeding

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by ATVracer, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. ATVracer

    ATVracer LawnSite Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 346

    I am in the process of re-seeding parts of my yard that were hit by the drought this year. I went to the co-op to get some starter fert and all they had with a decent amount of P was 10-52-0 MAP. How much P do I need to be putting out/k during the establishment process? Should it be in split applications a few weeks apart? I am using an Elite blend of TTTF that is about 4-5 different kinds of seed. Thanks!

    BTW they said Urea was selling for $15 something a bag, which I thought was unreal considering I was getting it for $8-9 last year. I paid a little over $13 a bag for the MAP.
  2. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,705

    I don't think the excess phosphorus actually does any better than triple 19.

    I heard Urea had gone up to near its record high again.
  3. MStine315

    MStine315 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 789

    I like a pound of P per 1,000 in whatever analysis you find. You could also look at DAP (18-46-0) or 12-12-12 or 19-19-19. My grow-in program is pre-plant, then 3 apps. 2-3 weeks apart, so 4 apps. total, including at time of seeding, then transition into a maint. program.

    LIBERTYLANDSCAPING LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 1,283

    Soil test? Do you even need much P, if at all? Our soils in Northern Indiana don't require much additional, if at all. Other states are banning P because of runoff & excess use... let's not fuel that argument that those of use in the biz over apply for no reason. :nono: Most Universities will say rule of thumb is a 1-2-1 ratio of N-P-K
  5. BostonBull

    BostonBull LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 520

    Do a soil test and you'll have your answer.

    You dont reach into the medicine cabinet and take prescription drugs at whatever dose you want do you? Dont give your lawn too much either!
  6. MStine315

    MStine315 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 789

    If you look into the bans, they'll still allow the use of P during seeding. Even if soil tests show P, the seed will still respond to it, it is so hungry as it germinates. Also keep in mind what is in the soil isn't always available. That said, soil tests are useful.
  7. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    That is kind of what I was going to say....One thing to consider, is that even though the soil(s) can can be phosphate high, during seeding, the phos. that is applied is then right up near the surface where it is needed. Here in Michigan we would be hard pressed to find a soil that DOESN'T already have adequate amounts of P in it. Riggle had touched on something also. he mentioned the complete ferts. These are hard to beat. In a different thread, I mentioned using a starter fert. for the buildup of the turf in rapid thickness. This was NOT to say that this will do better than one of these completes, because won't. I had simply suggested it because of the cost (much cheaper), and the slow release safety. On the down side, the starter fert. DOES pollute the environment.
    I have a friend of mine who disagrees with me that the additional phos. helps root development (deeper and thicker) on mature grass. I tend to disagree with him. While applying it is not going to help immediately, as it takes a LONG time to move deeper into the soil, it DOES have a longer term beneficial effect (delayed, so to speak). While he knows WAY more than I do (MSU grad), I go by what i have learned from my own research. I respect anyone else's take on this, though....esPECially his. To this day, I have never met anyone who can grow grass like he does.
  8. topsites

    topsites LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 21,653

    Around here you show up with a soil test kit and I'm going to think only a few things:
    1) You're working for someone else, such as Chemlawn or maybe Scott's.
    > Although I doubt they even do it, probably because...
    2) You're new at this and don't know wth you're doing.
    3) You're a pretender, a fake, or a scammer of some sort.

    I'm sorry, but that's just the image that sends out here.
    For one, if you put down a balanced formula there's no fear of creating an ecological disaster, which you can do if you put down too much, or as they say, indiscriminately. But indiscriminate use doesn't mean everybody who puts down one bag of lime without testing the area is an idiot either, maybe they can tell from experience what the soil needs?

    So 30% per 1/4 acre, 50 pounds.
    Add 150 lbs of lime per 1/4, so 4 x 40 lb. or 3 x 50 lb. bags of lime per 1/4.
    Same for gypsum as for lime, so 4 x 40 lb. or 3 x 50 lb. bags of gypsum per 1/4.
    That's also assuming 50 pounds of 90% seed AND core aeration.
  9. lescojdl

    lescojdl LawnSite Member
    Messages: 40

    2 to 3 lbs of 11-52-0 would be fine now and then another shot in November. When springs rolls around, you want to go back to more balanced ferts.
  10. ACutAboveNC

    ACutAboveNC LawnSite Member
    Messages: 88

    Apply 1.5 lbs of phosphorus per 1000 sqft when overseeding, fescue that is. I am assuming you have a bluegrass variety though in Indiana and I am going off my fescue program. Phosphorus is required by the plant for root development and without any during the aeration process you will not be able to cultivate a healthy stand of turf. Even if there is phosphorus in the soil test, you still need to apply some type of fert to allow the plant to uptake the nutrients and grow faster and stronger. And why did you buy a 10-52-0, is the potassium in your area sufficient?

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