[Mike33]

I think one of the mistakes a lot of people make is selling themselves short. A lot of guys try to keep their prices low to get enough business to stay busy. I think more business is had by calling people back promply when they call about a job and followiing up with a visit and a quote. I have lots of guys tell me they called 6 guys and I was the only one who returned a call.

I think it is good to keep your prices up and I think in most areas 8 cents or more is not much of a problem.

The other thing too is costs are more than just the mulch and seed. You need to remember deprectiation, travel time etc and all that.

Ok, so you have $ 75.00 in seed in a load, 4 50 pound bales of mulch, maybe $ 50.00 in mulch. Another $ 40.00 or so for fert and other additives and so maybe $ 165.00 in a tankload. You have a little over 3 cents a square foot in materials. Yes, I think you need to be close to that 8 cent range. Maybe you can look at some ways to cut your costs and still get the same results. Quite seriously I have half what you do in materals. I am running to be fair 1.7 cents a square foot if I compare things fairly. Actually it is less because I buy a little better. A few suggestions is look into who handles plant marvel fertilizer in your area. You should find quicker and better results with 5 -7 pounds and much less cost. Maybe think about the growth stimulant try some tests without. If you can get 8 cents which should not be hard, you are growing good lawns, you are making good money and happy there really is not much need to worry about changing anything.

You could think about looking into organic hydroseeding, not as a way to cut costs because it is as expensive as all get out, but as a way to have a premium high profit side to your business. We have a lot of information about it on the IAHP (hydroseeding association) site but the site is going to be messed up for a day or two a bit. hydroseeding.org is the site. (I do the website and hope to have it squared away in the next day or two but the organic info is there.

How are you coming in at 1.7 in material? What are you putting down?
Mike

 

[Turboguy]

I purchased a Finn unit. I have not had a chance to use it yet. I am still working on my pricing. What is the minimum sq' you would go and shoot. I am in a situation where the majority of the work I will be getting is in the 1500-2500 sq' range. What would you charge for that. I did some research and found some companies (not in my state) charging .18 cents for that size shoot. does that sound about right.
QUOTE]

I don't have a size I won't do. The smallest job I ever did was about 25 square feet of Crown Vetch. The guy had called several dozen hydro seeding contractors and I was the only one willing to shoot it. He felt Crown Vetch really needed to be hydroseeded to work properly and had a hillside where he needed it. I charged him $ 250.00 but I also had a 30 mile drive.

Rather than have a minimum size I have a minimum price. Most guys are a little higher but if it is where I can just whip in and spray some left over material from another job my minimum price is $ 100.00. It is virtually pure profit and usually takes me 20 minutes tops and most of that is BSing with the customer. Many guys will have a minimum price of $ 175 or $ 250 or whatever.

As far as those 1500 to 2500 square feet jobs which is about right for someones front lawn or back lawn I would say a minimum of $ 10 cents a sq ft and most likly I would be princing them out around $ 250.00 on the smaller ones and $295.00 on the bigger ones. Your material costs will be somewhere between $ 30-45.00 on the smaller ones and $ 40 - $ 75 on the bigger ones. You could pull in and seed those jobs in a half hour max, you do have travel time and filling time to boot.

Pricing however varies quite a bit on where you are and also on your own sales ability. One of the tricks on getting a good price on hydroseeding is to sell it against sod rather than against dry seeding or other hydroseeding contractors. What I am saying is if you promote that you can give him a lawn that will be better than a sod lawn in a few weeks for 1/6th or 1/4th the cost, then price becomes less an issue.

 

[Turboguy]

oh.
i quit seeding for 2 years cuz i was subbing to a competitor, complete with the fertilzier.
this year i started back up, and realized i hadn't emptied my tank back in 2005 when i quit.
so i half filled the tank with water, let it sit for a day, and fired the pump.

Good grief it SMELLED BAD, but no clog.

doug jetpump turboturf miller

That must be some kind of record, sitting for two years with material in it and not clogging. I think that sort of backs up my comments about not clogging that I made a few pages ago. Yes, it does not take too long for that smell to get really rancid.

 

[Turboguy]

How are you coming in at 1.7 in material? What are you putting down?
Mike

Mike, my typical mix is about like this,

25 pounds of what we call turbo mix seed. It is 35% ky bluegrass, 20% fescue and 45% rye. A 50 pound bag is $ 69.95 so for 25 pound I have 35.00 in it.

Mulch I am using about 80 pounds of paper mulch at a cost of $ 20.00.

Tackifer, about 8 oz of PAM tackifier (turbo Tack) cost about $ 5.00

Fertilzier. About 5-6 pounds of Plant Marvel, 16-45-7 starter fertizlier. Cost about $ 6.00

So I have

Seed $ 35.00
Mulch 20.00
Tack 5.00
Fert 6.00

Total $ 66.00 Coverage with my HS-300-XPW = 4000 sq ft.

Cost per sq ft. $ .0165

I will add that I am using a better seed blend than my competitors and I have as close to zero callback as you could get with that blend.

 

[Mike33]

Mike, my typical mix is about like this,

25 pounds of what we call turbo mix seed. It is 35% ky bluegrass, 20% fescue and 45% rye. A 50 pound bag is $ 69.95 so for 25 pound I have 35.00 in it.

Mulch I am using about 80 pounds of paper mulch at a cost of $ 20.00.

Tackifer, about 8 oz of PAM tackifier (turbo Tack) cost about $ 5.00

Fertilzier. About 5-6 pounds of Plant Marvel, 16-45-7 starter fertizlier. Cost about $ 6.00

So I have

Seed $ 35.00
Mulch 20.00
Tack 5.00
Fert 6.00

Total $ 66.00 Coverage with my HS-300-XPW = 4000 sq ft.

Cost per sq ft. $ .0165

I will add that I am using a better seed blend than my competitors and I have as close to zero callback as you could get with that blend.

Pm me with your # m interested in that seed, im using 18-24-12 for fertlizer 14.00 50 lb and appling to each tank
Mike

 

[drmiller100]

i think the fertilizer in the tank is mostly a waste of time. i throw some in just cuz folks ask, but i think by the time it germinates, most of the nutrients have been washed out.
is there such a thing as slowrelease ONLY?????

 

[Turboguy]

I used to feel about the same and there was one time very long ago that I walked off without the fertilizer and rather than stopping and getting some or coming back I just seeded without it and that job did seem like it came in a little worse.

There are slow release fertilizers but I tend to go the other way. I used granular fertilizers that were to some extent slow release for the first 7 years or so I was seeding, then I tried a water soluble fertilizer that I had heard good things about (the plant marvel one I talked about earlier). I wanted to do a little test with it so I had a small area right near my office that I had dug up. I had a two load job. I mixed the first load with the water soluble and sprayed a 3 x 3 test plot, then went to my job site and sprayed the back yard. I mixed up the second load on site and sprayed the front yard with a granular starter fertizler that I usually used, returned to my office and sprayed a 3 x 3 test plot next to the other.

8 days later I noticed the test plot seemed to show a rather large difference with the water soluable well in the lead and decided to take a ride out to the job site. I parked accross the street and looked over at the front lawn, the part that had been done with the granular and thought well that looks good and is coming in nicely. I had a very even germination and spikes about 3/4 to 1" tall. I walked around to see what had happened in the back yard and to be honest my mouth about fell open. It looked like a lawn and was almost ready for the first cutting.

I have been using that Plant Marvel fertizlier ever since. My thoughts are that the water soluble fertilizer soaks into the hull of the seed a little and speeds up germination. Perhaps there were other factors when I tested. It was not a scientific enough test to be very definitive. I do find that the water soluble will work faster but quit working sooner. Most customers get very concerned and anxious to see the lawn STARTING to come in so gaining a day or so there makes for a happy customer. Usually the lawn with be a little thin and yellow and I tell them to fertilizer with a high nitrogen fertilizer about the time the are ready to cut for the first time and that usually works a miracle in a day or two and turns it into a dark green beautiful lawn.

Fertilizer is a pretty cheap component in the hydroseeding slurry and I do think it is worth using it. There are lots of other good water soluble starter fertilizers besides the one I use and the one I use has lots of people who sell it around the country but I always think with hydro seeding it is good to experiment and try different products and different ways of doing it.

 

[NewHorizon's Land]

Ok unrelated to hydroseeding. Can the hydroseed unit be used for watering a plants, filling tree bags at places where a new landscape has been installed with out a substantial residual fertilize being applied?

 

[muddstopper]

Ray, I think you have done a pretty good job of explaining the benefits of different hydroseeding machines. I am going to touch on a few comments I feel is important.

All my company does is hydroseed. We started about 6 or 7 years ago with a Jet agitated machine. It was basicly just a side job for a little extra cash. As time went by, and business increased, we bought a 1000gal Bowie mechanical machine. That jet machine paid for the Bowie. Due to the type of seeding jobs we where doing, that durn big Bowie just wasnt feasible to operate, so we continued to use the Jet machine. I got the opportunity to purchase a used 600 gal Finn mounted on a trailer. The jet machine paid for the Finn also. The trailer mounted Finn, was just to hard to drag around so we cut the axles out from under it and mounted it on a 4500 series truck. Life became much easier. Like Turboguy mentioned, I dont like to spray using a hose reel. I thought I would and even made the trip to Turboturf to pick up a new one. Once I got it mounted and saw the pressure drop, I discontinued spraying thru the reel. Now the reel is just used to store the hose. I roll off what i need and hook directly to the machine. I keep 200ft (2 100ft sections) on the reel and an extra 50ft peice coiled up under the machine. I also have a 25ft section I use for roadsides. My machine doesnt have a tower but with the short peice of hose, I can stand on the truckbed and spray while someone drives the truck. I actually like this setup better than a tower, (My bowie had a tower). We continued to use the jet machine until we wore out the centrifical pump, and then I converted the machine into a nurse tank that was mounted on a ton flatbed. I even at times would use the bigger Bowie as a water truck to keep the smaller finn going. Transporting water is a big time factor, keeping a machine spraying on site, even if it is the smaller of the two machines, becomes more efficient than stopping and going after water. With water being hualed to the truck, I can reload and start spraying in about 6 minutes, and adverage a load every 20 minutes, if I have to go get water I adverage about 2 tankloads per hour, easy to see the time factor. Thats a lost of about 8 tank loads a day.

Recently we sold the Bowie machine, I hated to see it go because that thing was pure muscle and brute force. We just didnt use it enought to justify keeping tags and insurance on it. With the old jet machine converted to a nurse tank and mounted on a flatbed truck, our seeding times with the smaller machine is very similar to the larger machine, so if we have larger jobs to do we dont spend all day getting them done because of machine size. For the smaller residential jobs, the smaller Finn and truck combo lets us do most jobs without the aid of a nurse tank and is cetainly more manuverable than a trailer mounted machine. I Use a 6x10 dump trailer towed behind the seeding rig to carry extra supplies. I usually unhook from it at the water source so it doesnt cause problems on site. I can carry at least a ton of mulch on the truck with the hydroseeder and still be dot legal, and with this setup, (truck and trailer) we can carry more supplies than we can apply in a day, (or at least all I want to do). I almost never use a cutomers water spicket as a water source.

The question about using the hydroseeder for other things. I am going to say this. Once you learn the machine, you can apply just about any liquid material you want. The spray nozzles are not going to be as easy to calibarate as you can with a nomal chemical spray rig, to many varible factors, so I dont suggest pesticide applications, but you can apply ice melt in winter, dust control solutions in summer, use it to fight fires, (I have rented mine out to contractors that wanted to burn huge brush piles), apply organic materials to lawns (compost topdressings and other not easily spreadable materials. You can flush the tank pretty clean with just water and get rid of most fertilizer residues, probably want to flush it anyways to make sure you aint applying seed to that new flower bed. You can even clean the tank out and use it to fill swimming pools. Jet machines are a lot easier to clean out than a mechanical one.

 

[Turboguy]

Nice post Mudd. Unlike you I probably use the customers hose on 80% of my jobs.

About New Horizons watering question I have had tons of guys tell me they use thier machines for watering a lot. Much of it seems to be spot watering in hard to reach areas and also in a few cases to water a new lawn.

I have even had a few guys tell me they had developed a pretty good sideline business washing down parking lots.

 

[nop]

turboguy
will tou or your co. be at expo in louisville this year.

thanks, nop

 

[Turboguy]

Yes, I will definately be there. Please feel free to stop by and the same goes for anyone who would like to say hello.

 

[Dirt Boy]

Turbo Guy
I purchased a used 300 gal. "Turbo Turf" unit. I have been doing well with it, but, what is the best way to over seed into a "mixed bag" - partly well covered with grass, partly sparse, bare patches around.

I had previously graded the area, set for a while, mainly waiting for fall weather, and so some weeds had grown up, so I sprayed it "dead" now I "shot" it today, did like you said earlier, lighten up on mulch, tried to direct the stream down to get penetration, and then backed off and gave it a light overcoat.

Is this about right? I hope so, cause I'm beat!!

Hope this makes sense, I've been going all day, and I can hardly think straight right now, but I have another job to do which is similar in nature.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Turboguy]

Hi Dirt Boy,

The job you are describing sounds exactly like the kind of repair jobs I usually get here. They are all pretty easy and most always turn out well.

Your description sounds perfect.

I think I said some of this before but trim any existing grass close and bag it. You can scratch up the surface on any bare areas if you want but I most often don't and then just spray it the way you described.

I usually prefer to do my repair jobs in the spring and fall when the ground is nice and soft rather than rock hard the way it gets in August. You might try doing the job the day after the rain or have them do some deep watering for a day or two first but even if you don't it should be fine.

I mentioned watering first. This is the only time I would even think about it. The worst thing you can do is water a new lawn install before you hydro seed it. I had one a long, long time ago that was dusty and powdery and I was stirring up so much dust when I sprayed that it looked more like I was using a blower than a seeder. I decided to water it down. BIG MISTAKE. Don't ever try it.

 

[Dirt Boy]

Thanks Turbo Guy, I appreciate your help.

Just did my brothers today 36k sq. ft. (It's LABOR DAY - Right!!)
Perhaps you have answered this, but what are the chances of getting a stand of grass in existing grass?
We killed an area of existing grass just to make a straight line across the yard, and although we mowed it off short, I am wondering if this will "take".
The seed has to get into contact with the soil, and the grass, although dead, is pretty dense.
Hope this makes sense, just another 12 hr. day.

 

[Turboguy]

Yes, I understand. Just think about how nature re-seeds. Even if the seed hangs up on the existing grass watering and rains will send most of it to the soil surface and I think you will be fine. That is a little of why we suggest thinning the mix is if you plastered it on the blades of existing grass with enough mulch it might get stuck there but I think you will find the bulk of the seed will get where it needs to be and just do great.

 

[FIREMAN Q]

I mentioned watering first. This is the only time I would even think about it. The worst thing you can do is water a new lawn install before you hydro seed it. I had one a long, long time ago that was dusty and powdery and I was stirring up so much dust when I sprayed that it looked more like I was using a blower than a seeder. I decided to water it down. BIG MISTAKE. Don't ever try it.

I did my first job today. the dirt has been real dry and it seem to just ball up with sprayed on the dirt. I was wondering why you don't want to wet down the dirt first...???? what happens if you do??? thanks

 

[Turboguy]

Well, what you end up making is a lot of mud then when you walk you sink in and when you drag your hose you carry a lot of mud with it both making the hose very hard to drag and messing up the surface a lot.

What you might try instead in dusty conditions is just spraying out and letting it fall gently to the surface. You will still get some dust but not nearly as much and you will build a thicker layer of mulch using much less material. Try it next time and see what you think.

 

[FIREMAN Q]

thanks for the info. I wanted to make sure that wetting down the area wouldn't damage the slurry. thanks again.

 

[Turboguy]

No, that part will be fine. You will just find yourself walking around with 10 pounds of mud stuck on each foot and making craters where ever you walk. If the dirt is light and powdery like the job you talked about, and you water it first, it will almost look like you forgot to prep it when you are done.