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I hate GFCI's

33K views 72 replies 25 participants last post by  David Gretzmier 
#1 ·
I think I reset my 100th gfci plug tonight ( this year mind you, probably over 1000 in my lifetime ) and I have at least a dozen to do tomorrow. I know that water causes a connection to the ground and that is fed back into the ground of the building, and that causes the button to pop. I hate it. This single thing probably costs me in the neighborhood of 1-2 grand a year in labor for service calls. The more it rains, the more money out of my pocket.

yet I have many jobs, with different name brands of GFCI outlets, that never pop, no matter how much it rains. I know that newer outlets sometimes pop less than old, but not always. and GFCI breakers seem to pop less than GFCI outlets. further, experience tells me that heavy loaded outlets pop more than less loaded ones. but AGAIN, not always.

I wonder where these things came from and who decided these things help protect homes or people. were folks getting shocked from water and electricity outside so they made all outside outlets and garage outlets shut off if any water is present? then why do all of them not work, or only 1/4 of them or so?

I have some jobs that have dozens of cords with open outlets on 3 ways in gutters and they never pop. and I have some jobs with one cord from on wreath to an inside garage outlet, no open pugs that pops all the time.

OK, enough of a rant, now you guys tell me your experience with GFCI's.
 
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#2 ·
I will agree to all you said Dave

I have one house that we switched to all LED's hoping to reduce the load on the lines, use less cords and hopefully reduce tripped GFI's. Not the case. We have been there just as much this year as last year.

Of course we also have had more rain than normal as well.

How many of you tape the ends of mini lights and connections between extension cords and splitters? Does this help? Does it make it worse if water does make its way behind the tape?

Reason I ask, is we have not found any difference in tripped GFI with tape or no tape. BUT, we have complaints from customers because the perception is we should tape everything.
 
#3 ·
I will agree to all you said Dave

I have one house that we switched to all LED's hoping to reduce the load on the lines, use less cords and hopefully reduce tripped GFI's. Not the case. We have been there just as much this year as last year.

Of course we also have had more rain than normal as well.

How many of you tape the ends of mini lights and connections between extension cords and splitters? Does this help? Does it make it worse if water does make its way behind the tape?

Reason I ask, is we have not found any difference in tripped GFI with tape or no tape. BUT, we have complaints from customers because the perception is we should tape everything.
Hmmm. I have had one GFI pop this year (well that I know about) it was after a big rain fall.

We are very carefull about where we leave our plugs. If they are on the ground we squirt in a little greese. Seems to be working so far....
 
#4 · (Edited)
I had one, guy forgot to turn off the sprinklers, all yard displays were soaking wet, he keep messing with it until I showed up, unplugged the yard art, fired up just the house lights.....told him wait until it dried out, unplugged the sprinklers....


It happened all the time with icicles lights blowing back into gutters filled with water.....I hate those lights;;;;LOL!!!
 
#11 ·
We have found that most of the GFI trips are coming from where the lamps are inserted into the sockets on mini lights and not as much to do with the cords, even though fewer cords is much better. Having changed one client over from mini lights to LED's, the GFI's no longer trip on those circuits, but will on their plastic lighted displays.

Kirk
 
#12 ·
I just flipped ON my home display to hear the GFI's trip within a couple seconds. We had snow here 3 days ago and they worked fine with that, but today has been foggy, drizzily, and above freezing. Everything is saturated...

I won't post this on PC because I'd get flamed and most likely have my post deleted, but I just unplugged the cords from the GFCI plugs and re-plugged them into non-GFCI plugs that were right next to them. Yep, they work again.

I've always had my display lit, rain, snow, or dry, and never had an issue. Yes, I'm obviously "leaking" power in places, most likely all the tomato cage mini trees and wireframes, or all the cords and connections I have laying directly on the ground. (just too many to try to elevate all of them).

If I were to abide by the tripped GFCI plugs I'd likely have no more display for this season! There's just no way I could unplug everything on the ground, that's 3/4 my display!
 
#13 ·
I have several non-gfci outlets I use at homes, no issues.

The HBL LED light sets they sold that were warm white were top notch and I have a couple sets. The LED links they sell are not my thing, The ones I saw at convention are kinda dim and have a slightly green hue, and the older ones like the colossal flakes are bluish white. I also have a fear of not being able to repair them as I have no experience using a light testing unit with them.

The ones I saw also have the replacable LED, which depending on which side of the fence you are on is a good or bad thing. Good- probably fixable, bad- tin led leads rust like crazy.

I like the idea of the flex plug to go to DC.

If I know HBL they will be using the warm white concave lens with the brighter LED, and a better warm white color in the next few years.
 
#14 ·
You should seriously investigate what a GFCI does and why outdoor connections have to be GFCI protected under the nec. Technicians servicing the lights and homeowners will appreciate it. You could save a house and someones life. I am no expert on holiday lighting but I do know quite a bit about electrical. there are steps you can take to prevent nuisance tripping.
 
#15 ·
I'm so glad ya'll started this. My lights are on my house and I have a ton, using home depot lights, will be to expensive to change to LEDs. I've had 10 plugs with 3 breakers put in, and I still overload, got that part fixed. But the rain will flip the breaker or I have to do the reset button on the plug thing. I start out with heavy gauge cord then use a 3 plug thing and keep running off until I overload or need to move to other area.
Am I on the right track?
Today I'm going to get the cord plugs off the ground a couple of inches and see if that will help.
Glad to know the Pro's have the same problems, thought it was just me.
 
#16 ·
I probably have done more serious research on GFCI protection than anyone I've met. I've read at length how it works and why. it protects folks from shock by interupting the flow of electricity before it reaches a a danger zone. old 120 volt breaker protection would protect you, but your gonna get a jolt. 240 breakers can cause damage or death before they trip. GFCI's do not protect the home. they are not designed to do that. your breakers in the panel do that. breakers trip because of shorts, overloading, heated lines, or fire.

GFCI's trip because of an imbalance between the neutral and the line loads. this is caused by resistance because of moisture or when someone touches one or both of the bare wires of a system. The degree of imbalance between the neutral and line loads before the button pops is extremely variable based on the individual plug itself. although the human body can't even feel a 12-14 volt AC "leak" because of a wet cord, the GFCI detects it and usually trips. older GFCI's that have tripped multiple times, thus have weaker springs tend to trip with a 3 volt imablance or less. newer 20 amp plugs will trip less and can usually withstand more moisture and can handle 6-8 volt imbalance or so.

If you read any article on the internet out there, it talks about tripping gfci's and how many efforts to reduce it are useless. taping plugs can help until the water gets past the tape. then it won't dry out. elevating plugs off the ground helps until the rain makes a continuous run to the ground.
 
#17 ·
I am bringing this back because I am up to my ears with tripped GFCI calls.

Customers all seem to think it is my fault and they spent $xxx.xx and all the neighbors are still working and I need to fix and it better not happen again.... friggin sh.....

ANYBODY have a system that works to stop this from happening. I even have the problem at my house. Had an article in todays paper, it rained, no lights for everyone to come by and look at....

Most of the problems are at LED houses, granted these houses have a bunch of lights, but this is rediculous, I have breakers with 4 amps on them tripping.

We made sure the cords were off the ground and anything else obvious....

am I just at a point where houses with 100-200 strand of 50's minis just end up with so many connections that it is the sum of a little bit of water in each spot causing a big problem??

Do we need to run less strands end to end? Split the power up more as if they were incandescents so that maybe the problems get spread over more circuits and no longer trip?

I have never, ever been so frustrated, nor have I never been unable to tell a customer "dont worry we wont have this problem again"

Any help.....if it rains again even my wife may fire me....

Bryan
 
#18 ·
I am bringing this back because I am up to my ears with tripped GFCI calls.

Customers all seem to think it is my fault and they spent $xxx.xx and all the neighbors are still working and I need to fix and it better not happen again.... friggin sh.....

ANYBODY have a system that works to stop this from happening. I even have the problem at my house. Had an article in todays paper, it rained, no lights for everyone to come by and look at....

Most of the problems are at LED houses, granted these houses have a bunch of lights, but this is rediculous, I have breakers with 4 amps on them tripping.

We made sure the cords were off the ground and anything else obvious....

am I just at a point where houses with 100-200 strand of 50's minis just end up with so many connections that it is the sum of a little bit of water in each spot causing a big problem??

Do we need to run less strands end to end? Split the power up more as if they were incandescents so that maybe the problems get spread over more circuits and no longer trip?

I have never, ever been so frustrated, nor have I never been unable to tell a customer "dont worry we wont have this problem again"

Any help.....if it rains again even my wife may fire me....

Bryan
I've been to the same house 6 times since the install, I even went as far as using liquid tape on all connections.....and still called back, plus the GFCI is in the homeowners garage in a cabinet and he has a broken arm and is a senior.........anyway, I finally pulled one of his displays and so far everything has worked......I'm planning on getting a GFCI cords at all points of power, this way the homeowner can push the button instead of me wasting my time........
 
#20 ·
If you are using the flexchange style lights... I am wondering if water is seeping in the bulb sockets... I've never had this issue with them, but I only have maybe 20 sets installed. The rest of my LED sets are sealed...

I am bringing this back because I am up to my ears with tripped GFCI calls.

Customers all seem to think it is my fault and they spent $xxx.xx and all the neighbors are still working and I need to fix and it better not happen again.... friggin sh.....

ANYBODY have a system that works to stop this from happening. I even have the problem at my house. Had an article in todays paper, it rained, no lights for everyone to come by and look at....

Most of the problems are at LED houses, granted these houses have a bunch of lights, but this is rediculous, I have breakers with 4 amps on them tripping.

We made sure the cords were off the ground and anything else obvious....

am I just at a point where houses with 100-200 strand of 50's minis just end up with so many connections that it is the sum of a little bit of water in each spot causing a big problem??

Do we need to run less strands end to end? Split the power up more as if they were incandescents so that maybe the problems get spread over more circuits and no longer trip?

I have never, ever been so frustrated, nor have I never been unable to tell a customer "dont worry we wont have this problem again"

Any help.....if it rains again even my wife may fire me....

Bryan
 
#21 ·
It's so nice to know we're not alone with GFCI problems!! While we don't have a ton of customers calling with GFCI problems -- we seem to have 1 or 2 problem children every year. And we also keep cords off the ground, use silicone, etc. My husband went to one of the problem houses last night and sat in front of the house. It was a rainy evening and he had a hunch the pesky GFCI would pop again. Sure enough it did. He was able to track it down to the mini-lights on their small trees -- incandescents. We unplugged those and will be switching them to LED. That particular customer also has blue LED minis on different trees -- no problem. My suggestion -- try to be at one of these problem houses when the GFCI trips...then immediately start tracking it down. You should hopefully be able to narrow it down to one particular product, one tree, etc. Try to keep the house lights on a completely different circuit so at least if the ground stuff trips, the customer can still have the house lights on. That makes 'em feel a little better. We only have this problem at houses where there's stuff on the ground...the houses with just lights on the house and/or starbursts in trees...no GFCI problems.

Like someone else suggested...I'm dying to switch out GFCI outlets to non-GFCI outlets at problem houses. Is that legal? Do you open yourself to any liability? I would think you would want to get the customer's permission in writing.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for the suggestions, and fast too everyone.

Hotrod they are NOT the flexchange, that is what has me, I just figured water was getting into the connections because there are so many on some of these houses.

We dont tape because it did not help any of the problems in the past and just wasted time.

britelights, I have done that way too many times, customers appreciate it but dont think it is anything that is beyond the call of duty, unbelievable to be out on a Sunday in a rain storm to figure out a GFCI problem and the customer thinks that I SHOULD be there.
Anyway, we do the same thing, unplug everything and slowly plug all back in until you find the spot tripping. Then isolate it and fix later, we also try to split the display into sections so that if/when something goes they still have most of their display and dont flip out....

As far as switching out an GFCI for a NON-GFCI I would NEVER do that for a number of reasons. Building codes require them, I need a seperate town/county license to mess with the electric, and last but not least, heaven forbid somthing happens, even unrelated, I am in a world of hurt because the finger will get pointed at me for changing out the receptacle.

Today should be our last day of new installs, 11 days til Christmas, let's hope we dont get anymore rain until the 26th. Pray we dont get rain on the 24th or 25th, those are the worst calls EVER....
 
#24 ·
I can understand if the light go out as a result of a faulty string, broken bulbs, ect. but at what point do you put the responsibility on the customer to check this stuff. Ie Customer calls, my lights are not working. you respond No problem I'll come take a look, but there will be a service charge is its something simple like a tripped GFI/breaker.


FWIW I do a lot of RC boating. and water and electronics really don't mix. but I use a Chemical called corrosion X, I have been able to run servos, receivers, batteries under water with no loss of connection or shorts..

I've also been using Fluid film on new applications and getting good results.

might be something worth looking into..
 
#26 ·
I hate GFCI issues. I have several properties, that have an old, cracked dangerous looking old plug hidden in a shed somewhere. Those things are awesome ! they never trip. but I have hundreds of brand new state of the art 20 amp GFCI outlets out there that pop all the time. It kills me that it is plenty legal to plug into an old outlet, but not legal to change them out. I have had customers wrap bags around timers, cord connections, taping, siliconing, etc, in an effort to keep them from tripping. I have customers that run a cord into a spare unused bedroom window, and then block the window draft with newspaper. They hate not having their lights on. I actually do the lights at the electric company. and they have 10 GFCI outlets that are worthless in the rain. but they have one old non-gfci plug on the end of the building...

I will tell you that changing out a GFCI does not endanger the home in any way because of overload or fire, etc. , but it does endanger someone of getting a shock. they are designed for that purpose, keeping someone from even feeling a shock, specifically around water. I have gotten a shock that trips a breaker on a non gfci circuit, and man, that wakes you up.

You could try switching them out with new 20 amp new gfci's. The new ones seem to be WAY better at not tripping until they trip that first time. after that, not so much. once a GFCI has been reset 10-20 times, spend the 10-15 bucks to replace it. It should be done by a master electrician, but any website in the world will tell you to put the black wire on the "hot" side, the white on the "white" side, and the green on the green ground screw. every GFCI outlet I have seen is labeled.

again, probably illegal, but those light socket to plug adapters can usually handle 3-500 watts and might just be on a non gfci circuit. for LED jobs, might help...

but I am not advising anyone to do anything illegal....
 
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