[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

Another wintertime thread, for northern guys that have to deal with turf on clay based soils with high pH. What methods are you using to enhance N and other nutient uptake? I've learned enough to realize nutrients in granular fert thrown into these types of lawn just get bound up in the soil profile via heavy presence of hydroxy anions in the clay soil (limestone created). The nutrient cations just get eaten up and become unusable to the turfgrass. What percentage gets tied up, I'm not certain, but it is happening. Fe is a huge example. Throwing dry fert with iron is a total waste here, I never see a good green up with granular iron. Unfortunately I use a ride on, so I can't really spray chelated iron for risk of burn at low volume application.

Who here deals with clay soils and what have you tried to enhance nutrient uptake? Results?

 

[CHARLES CUE]

Here is what we use you can spray it or it comes on the fert i buy it helps with locked up nutrients. in come in different mixes if you spray it on. low use rate and the price wont break the bank

ARMAMENT Concentrate

MANUFACTURED BY: ENP Investments, LLC • P.O. Box 618 • 2001 W. Main St. • Mendota, IL 61342 • Phone: 800.255.4906 • www.foliarpak.com
NOTICE: ENP Investments LLC warrants that the product conforms to its chemical
description and is reasonably fit for the purposes stated on the label when used in
accordance with the directions under normal conditions of use. ENP Investments
LLC will not be responsible for incidental or consequential damage resulting from
the use of this product contrary to instructions or under abnormal conditions or
under conditions not reasonably foreseeable to ENP Investments LLC.
Foliar-Pak is a registered trademark used under license by ENP Investments LLC.
Armament is a registered trademark of ENP Investments LLC.
PRODUCT INFORMATION:
Weight per Gallon at 68°: 10.59 lbs (4.8 kg)
pH: 7.2
soilfoliar
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Soluble Potash (K2O)....................................... 9.0%
Derived from: potassium acetate
GENERAL USE GUIDE
Sports Turf
Lawns
Cool Season Turf: For optimal results apply a total of
40-60 fl oz per acre per season using any desired number
of applications.
Warm Season Turf: For optimal results apply a total of
60-80 fl oz per acre per season using any desired number
of applications.
May be tank mixed with other soil applied products. Dries
safely on the leaf surface, but for best results water into soil
profile as soon as possible.
This product is tank mix compatible with most fertilizers and pesticides. However, due to
variability in water sources and pesticide formulations a compatibility test is recommended.
Ornamentals Mix 16 to 32 fl oz in 100 gal of water. Spray to the point of
runoff or drench into soil.
Armament technology is a patented, biodegradable nutrient enhancer. This
high molecular weight structure holds a large population of negative charges.
These negative charges gently complex positively charged metals, keeping
them in solution.
Apply Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate with routine fertilizer applications
for deeper, stronger roots, more resilient turf and longer lasting color.
• Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate increases nutrient uptake and
ensures predictable nutrient availability.
• Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate unlocks the tied-up nutrients that
already exist in the soil, turning them into plant usable nutrition.
• Armament technology prevents nutrient-to-nutrient interactions and
chemical changes in the spray tank and the soil.
• Completely biodegradable and will not accumulate in the environment.
• Acting as a buffer, Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate can be used in high
pH and hard water.
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION/BENEFITS
Foliar-Pak® Armament Concentrate keeps
nutrients in suspension, preventing
interactions in the spray tank and improving
nutrient availability.
Armament® Concentrate

 

[southgalawn]

I can't speak to your specific situation but it's pretty common to spray iron from a ride on.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

Here is what we use you can spray it or it comes on the fert i buy it helps with locked up nutrients. in come in different mixes if you spray it on. low use rate and the price wont break the bank

ARMAMENT Concentrate

MANUFACTURED BY: ENP Investments, LLC • P.O. Box 618 • 2001 W. Main St. • Mendota, IL 61342 • Phone: 800.255.4906 • www.foliarpak.com
NOTICE: ENP Investments LLC warrants that the product conforms to its chemical
description and is reasonably fit for the purposes stated on the label when used in
accordance with the directions under normal conditions of use. ENP Investments
LLC will not be responsible for incidental or consequential damage resulting from
the use of this product contrary to instructions or under abnormal conditions or
under conditions not reasonably foreseeable to ENP Investments LLC.
Foliar-Pak is a registered trademark used under license by ENP Investments LLC.
Armament is a registered trademark of ENP Investments LLC.
PRODUCT INFORMATION:
Weight per Gallon at 68°: 10.59 lbs (4.8 kg)
pH: 7.2
soilfoliar
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Soluble Potash (K2O)....................................... 9.0%
Derived from: potassium acetate
GENERAL USE GUIDE
Sports Turf
Lawns
Cool Season Turf: For optimal results apply a total of
40-60 fl oz per acre per season using any desired number
of applications.
Warm Season Turf: For optimal results apply a total of
60-80 fl oz per acre per season using any desired number
of applications.
May be tank mixed with other soil applied products. Dries
safely on the leaf surface, but for best results water into soil
profile as soon as possible.
This product is tank mix compatible with most fertilizers and pesticides. However, due to
variability in water sources and pesticide formulations a compatibility test is recommended.
Ornamentals Mix 16 to 32 fl oz in 100 gal of water. Spray to the point of
runoff or drench into soil.
Armament technology is a patented, biodegradable nutrient enhancer. This
high molecular weight structure holds a large population of negative charges.
These negative charges gently complex positively charged metals, keeping
them in solution.
Apply Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate with routine fertilizer applications
for deeper, stronger roots, more resilient turf and longer lasting color.
• Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate increases nutrient uptake and
ensures predictable nutrient availability.
• Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate unlocks the tied-up nutrients that
already exist in the soil, turning them into plant usable nutrition.
• Armament technology prevents nutrient-to-nutrient interactions and
chemical changes in the spray tank and the soil.
• Completely biodegradable and will not accumulate in the environment.
• Acting as a buffer, Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate can be used in high
pH and hard water.
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION/BENEFITS
Foliar-Pak® Armament Concentrate keeps
nutrients in suspension, preventing
interactions in the spray tank and improving
nutrient availability.
Armament® Concentrate

Interesting product, what is the general science behind its effectiveness?
Looking for common sense real science not Fauci type stuff.

 

[CHARLES CUE]

Interesting product, what is the general science behind its effectiveness?
Looking for common sense real science not Fauci type stuff.

It unlocks nutrients so the can be used

 

[Johnshandyman]

I use a product called Carbon Pro from Site One (Lesco).
https://www.siteone.com/pdf/sdsPDF?skuId=626428&resourceId=126429

 

[Hineline]

My first thought is how high is the pH? If the soil pH is in a slightly elevated range, perhaps many secondary and micro's can be released naturally by using more AS in the nitrogen regimen and applying elemental sulfur. I deal with almost all clay soils that are slightly to moderately acidic. I may be getting a slight pop off my granular iron source, but I am eliminating this from my regimen and looking at foliar applications of photo-micro's.

How high the pH is would be my first piece of information that I would work with.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

7.5 on avg. Not good.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

I use a product called Carbon Pro from Site One (Lesco).
https://www.siteone.com/pdf/sdsPDF?skuId=626428&resourceId=126429

That looks like a great chelated iron/conditioning product. The fact it doesn't have N in it makes it a good ride on option.

 

[The Green One]

Here is what we use you can spray it or it comes on the fert i buy it helps with locked up nutrients. in come in different mixes if you spray it on. low use rate and the price wont break the bank

ARMAMENT Concentrate

MANUFACTURED BY: ENP Investments, LLC • P.O. Box 618 • 2001 W. Main St. • Mendota, IL 61342 • Phone: 800.255.4906 • www.foliarpak.com
NOTICE: ENP Investments LLC warrants that the product conforms to its chemical
description and is reasonably fit for the purposes stated on the label when used in
accordance with the directions under normal conditions of use. ENP Investments
LLC will not be responsible for incidental or consequential damage resulting from
the use of this product contrary to instructions or under abnormal conditions or
under conditions not reasonably foreseeable to ENP Investments LLC.
Foliar-Pak is a registered trademark used under license by ENP Investments LLC.
Armament is a registered trademark of ENP Investments LLC.
PRODUCT INFORMATION:
Weight per Gallon at 68°: 10.59 lbs (4.8 kg)
pH: 7.2
soilfoliar
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Soluble Potash (K2O)....................................... 9.0%
Derived from: potassium acetate
GENERAL USE GUIDE
Sports Turf
Lawns
Cool Season Turf: For optimal results apply a total of
40-60 fl oz per acre per season using any desired number
of applications.
Warm Season Turf: For optimal results apply a total of
60-80 fl oz per acre per season using any desired number
of applications.
May be tank mixed with other soil applied products. Dries
safely on the leaf surface, but for best results water into soil
profile as soon as possible.
This product is tank mix compatible with most fertilizers and pesticides. However, due to
variability in water sources and pesticide formulations a compatibility test is recommended.
Ornamentals Mix 16 to 32 fl oz in 100 gal of water. Spray to the point of
runoff or drench into soil.
Armament technology is a patented, biodegradable nutrient enhancer. This
high molecular weight structure holds a large population of negative charges.
These negative charges gently complex positively charged metals, keeping
them in solution.
Apply Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate with routine fertilizer applications
for deeper, stronger roots, more resilient turf and longer lasting color.
• Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate increases nutrient uptake and
ensures predictable nutrient availability.
• Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate unlocks the tied-up nutrients that
already exist in the soil, turning them into plant usable nutrition.
• Armament technology prevents nutrient-to-nutrient interactions and
chemical changes in the spray tank and the soil.
• Completely biodegradable and will not accumulate in the environment.
• Acting as a buffer, Foliar-Pak Armament Concentrate can be used in high
pH and hard water.
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION/BENEFITS
Foliar-Pak® Armament Concentrate keeps
nutrients in suspension, preventing
interactions in the spray tank and improving
nutrient availability.
Armament® Concentrate

Thanks for the Tip Charles Cue.

Will give the Armament K a try, as a Reducing Agent, I have a few uses for it too.

 

[Hineline]

I had the impression that perhaps your area had higher yearly precip rates, but you average about 25% less than NE Ohio. Obviously, you have parent material that is also contributing to the higher pH. The challenges of maximizing nutrient load for the plant coupled with a large customer base for applications can be difficult in a standard granular program. Perhaps you can attack "A" classification accounts with pH lower programs utilizing sulfur and AS in the annual program, but you may have to consider adding more foliar applications delivering the nutrient directly to the plant. This requires adding more equipment to handle this. I'm doing much the same but for different reasons.

High rates of soil drench is another way I would try to deliver materials in the soil to break the soil bound nutrients. Humic acid would be one of those compounds. I have a smaller hydroseeder that I am considering using for the high soil flow needed for a drench. There are also very reasonably priced polymers that can added to the drench to enhance drought resistance and help promote longer microbial processes for nutrient chelation for plant uptake.

 

[Trees Too]

Another wintertime thread, for northern guys that have to deal with turf on clay based soils with high pH. What methods are you using to enhance N and other nutrient uptake? ....
Who here deals with clay soils and what have you tried to enhance nutrient uptake? Results?

It occurred to me that @phasthound and @RigglePLC may have some good input on this one.
Isn't one rule of thumb in dealing with clay soils to apply gypsum?
There's also a product out there call ClayMend™ but I've never used it.

 

[RigglePLC]

We do not worry about clay soil around here. North side of town tends to have more clay. It stays wet longer. Clay can hold water in low spots.
Apple orchards with hilly clay do just fine. Sandy soils--they just dry out too quickly.
I do not know about special amendments for clay.
My only rule is: if you can grow weeds--you can grow grass.

 

[The Green One]

It occurred to me that @phasthound and @RigglePLC may have some good input on this one.
Isn't one rule of thumb in dealing with clay soils to apply gypsum?
There's also a product out there call ClayMend™ but I've never used it.

If clay soils are slaked from high sodium then Yes Gypsum.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

If clay soils are slaked from high sodium then Yes Gypsum.

Not here. High Ca+ ions from limestone. I don't mind the water retention qualities of clay based soils. I DO mind the fact that when it gets TOO wet, water sits around and brews disease in lawns. Hard packed clay also creates a bad interface between the turf rootzone and the soil. Have seen lawns two years after new sodding where you could still just roll the sod right back off of the soil. The roots don't want any part of that nasty muck.

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

I had the impression that perhaps your area had higher yearly precip rates, but you average about 25% less than NE Ohio. Obviously, you have parent material that is also contributing to the higher pH. The challenges of maximizing nutrient load for the plant coupled with a large customer base for applications can be difficult in a standard granular program. Perhaps you can attack "A" classification accounts with pH lower programs utilizing sulfur and AS in the annual program, but you may have to consider adding more foliar applications delivering the nutrient directly to the plant. This requires adding more equipment to handle this. I'm doing much the same but for different reasons.

High rates of soil drench is another way I would try to deliver materials in the soil to break the soil bound nutrients. Humic acid would be one of those compounds. I have a smaller hydroseeder that I am considering using for the high soil flow needed for a drench. There are also very reasonably priced polymers that can added to the drench to enhance drought resistance and help promote longer microbial processes for nutrient chelation for plant uptake.

Very helpful info. I had kicked around the possibility of differentiating my standard 4-5 app customers from 'enhanced' customers that really are looking for a tiptop lawn. Weed control would be identical for both, however enhanced turf appearance through better nutrient uptake would be the goal for the latter. One thing I DONT want to do is start something like this, then get no better results with the 'enhanced' program, and customers ask "what the heck are we paying extra for, anyway?"

 

[Hineline]

Very helpful info. I had kicked around the possibility of differentiating my standard 4-5 app customers from 'enhanced' customers that really are looking for a tiptop lawn. Weed control would be identical for both, however enhanced turf appearance through better nutrient uptake would be the goal for the latter. One thing I DONT want to do is start something like this, then get no better results with the 'enhanced' program, and customers ask "what the heck are we paying extra for, anyway?"

I like the term "enhanced". I'm still weighing some changes for 2022 utilizing an enhanced program for some of my customer base. Times are calling for innovation with the monopolization and collusive nature of NPK producers and the resulting pricing outcomes. I ran trials in 2021 for enhanced delivery. The results were outstanding. I cut my actual use of granular nutrition in half. I saw my flush growth drop and produced dark green, manageable turf. However, change is difficult at first. I just keep thinking about the 50 tons of fertilizer that has to be handled many different times to get on the ground. About 65% of the 50 tons is nothing more than rock filler. So inefficient!

 

[CHARLES CUE]

I like the term "enhanced". I'm still weighing some changes for 2022 utilizing an enhanced program for some of my customer base. Times are calling for innovation with the monopolization and collusive nature of NPK producers and the resulting pricing outcomes. I ran trials in 2021 for enhanced delivery. The results were outstanding. I cut my actual use of granular nutrition in half. I saw my flush growth drop and produced dark green, manageable turf. However, change is difficult at first. I just keep thinking about the 50 tons of fertilizer that has to be handled many different times to get on the ground. About 65% of the 50 tons is nothing more than rock filler. So inefficient!

How about a product like Branch Creek or Anuvia Plant Nutrients' GreenTRX they say no rocks all ferilizer

 

[The Green One]

Not here. High Ca+ ions from limestone. I don't mind the water retention qualities of clay based soils. I DO mind the fact that when it gets TOO wet, water sits around and brews disease in lawns. Hard packed clay also creates a bad interface between the turf rootzone and the soil. Have seen lawns two years after new sodding where you could still just roll the sod right back off of the soil. The roots don't want any part of that nasty muck.

So what are you doing in past seasons to deal with the Ca+Carbonates?

Granular Sulfur?
Citric Acid Higher Volume drenches/through irrigation?
Biology inputs?

 

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

So what are you doing in past seasons to deal with the Ca+Carbonates?

Granular Sulfur?
Citric Acid Higher Volume drenches/through irrigation?
Biology inputs?

On a few of my best lawns, with particular homeowners: granular sulfur applications twice per season at 5 lbs/K. DG Humic applications twice per season at high bag rate. Preferrably aerating before each, not always the case. I have not used citric acid and cannot do high volume drenches due to my operation being ride on only. I probably could crank up the ride on to a gal/K with different tips I suppose. Have not utilized chelated iron at all....and I fully realize granular Fe is worthless on the soils we have here.

pH has not moved one bit through 3 seasons of sulfur applications on these lawns. Obviously need to apply quite a bit more sulfur per season to accomplish this, and then I'm fighting irrigation water with a pH of 7.5 which buffers out my sulfur apps. DG Humic.....not really a visual add, gotta trust the science behind it on that one.