Insurance and work comp

Discussion in 'Business Operations' started by GrassTec, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. 205mx

    205mx LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,393

    What reason?
    Posted via Mobile Device
  2. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,099

    Ok sooooo Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Kellus, charges $85 per hour (IIRC) but thinks $10.10/hr is too high of a wage to pay employees?

    I know I'm totally misunderstanding something here.

    Im not trying to argue, trying to understand.

    In CT, in New Haven, in 1999 the generic Tru Green lawn mower dude got paid $12-$14…some as high as $16.

    We certainly weren't charging $85 an hour…. so how does the minimum wage thing affect you? Since you have to be paying more than that for your help anyway?

    Also, one of your previous primary arguments for BEING at $85 per hour is because of the extremely high cost of living.
    No doubt why they are raising minimum wage in that state to $10.10.
    Obviously this will have a chain reaction in the state because the price of whoppers and oil changes will go up.

    But, what Im getting at, is being seasonal in the first place, where you previously expecting employees to make a living in Milford/Orange/West Haven at LESS that $10 per hour…. I assume your $$/hr were high partially because you already had to pay a higher wage for decent guys?

    Again, educate me on what Im missing?
  3. Kelly's Landscaping

    Kelly's Landscaping LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,725

    You haven't lived here in a while and what you know is out dated. I wasn't paying 10.10 an hour I was paying 17-18 an hour last year and with ot it was quite common for them to hit 1100-1200 each some weeks. The issue is at that price we can't make a profit. So say I cut it to the lowest I could go at 15 an hour the profit is so small its also not worth it that is why I scrapped it. Plus you can't keep them at that for long before they ask for their expect annual raises of a dollar or more.

    What we make on our best hours is not fair to judge us by. Plus your tru green example is spreading pellets or spraying liquid fert because its even cheaper. What they can generate and hour is not comparable to a lawn maintenance company. We do fert too but it's only 10% of our income. 60-65% comes from lawn cuts.

    As for cost of living you seem to want to pretend taxes aren't part of it. according to this your states number 2 I'm 48th then when it's adjusted for cost of living you go to 4th I'm now 49th it's not even close.
  4. Snyder's Lawn Inc

    Snyder's Lawn Inc LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,530

    Thanks for the link I enjoyed it and learned something
  5. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,099

    You misread my post.. I said the MOWER guys got 12-14 and 16 at the highest.
    I didn't have any squirt n fert guys… completely different division.
    That's Chem Lawn, I was LandCare.

    I get your 17-18 an hour comparison, that's why I was asking.

    How does 10.10 mini wage even effect you, since your people already get paid more than that.

    your guys expect a dollar raise a year just because it's a new year?

    so…so they go some where else to get that dollah mo?

    Is there someone paying 19? and the next year 20? and the next year 21?

    at some point they have to realize they are at the max rate for their position.

    Do they give you more production and better efficiency every year?

    At $17 an hour a guy should be able to comprehend and jive with what some of what Im saying.

    I left CT in 2005, I was paying most of my guys $15/hr.

    I didn't sell the tree business I was partners in until last year… Im still very versed in the cost of business in CT.
    Made business decisions regularly and filed taxes every year.
    Know ALL about business in CT.
  6. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,099

    Taxes…you're talking about all this ranking, when in reality the difference is 7 grand or less per year… this isn't thunder and lightening.
    Especially considering you are charging $85 an hour for lawn mowing and the local companies here are charging $58.00

    your season would allow 30 weeks or 1200 hours, where ours will allow max 20 weeks or 800 hours.

    So just comparing a solo to solo 85 x 1200 - 102000 , 58 x 800 = $46400.
    Much bigger difference than 7 k isn't it?
    Let's not make some marginal tax difference such a mountain.

    ******ed statistics from mental midgets that make them, don't take into consideration SHIPPING of goods, or the great cost of simple travel in a state like this, compared to CT.
    Our goods and materials cost considerably more than what you are accustomed to.
    Factor in that even the best paid and skilled workers here are often out of work for more than 5 months out of every year because of the extreme seasonal nature of 75% of labor positions in this state.

    Simple charts showing cost of living and taxes don't measure things like that.
    People use those dumb charts every year and move here, thinking stye are going to get great jobs and make it rich.
    and they leave every year.
    Our state statistics have the same amount of people moving in every year that move out.
    People leave this state with their tails between their legs at a dead run every year because they can't hack and you can't make it rich here.
    Because frankly the statistics just plain lie.

    What it might look like on paper, isn't what it IS like.

    To make it here, you have to have three jobs, No one CARES if you have some lame degree, if you can't slap on carhartt bibs and work in -20 or worse there is no work for you, no room for whiners or managers that point fingers, those jobs are taken already, all three positions… filled.
    this is a working state…no one survives here that can't carry their own weight.
    no room for error.

    Just today in church the wife and I were listening to some new guy go on about how he's been here for two weeks and looking for work and hoping to move up his family. blah blah blah and on and on…. we hear it ALL the time. It's an inside joke in this state…
    Unless you have been here 10 years, no one believes you;re staying for long, they keep telling you , you won't make it past another winter….because most people leave.
    Does that sound like the second cheapest/best place in America to live?
    Maybe idiots that keep moving here should stop reading those dumb websites?

    by the way, #1 on that list, wyoming, how many people do you know that are living comfortably on easy street in Wyoming??
    Me thinks your website is flawed and the guy who compiled the information should be looking for another job,
    as long as it isn't alaska… he won't make it here.
  7. jrs.landscaping

    jrs.landscaping LawnSite Silver Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,764

    Entry level positions are 11-13 per hour for mowing. Bump minimum wage and what does that do to your available labor pool.

    Those guys now want $2 more ph because this work is " strenuous"

    Now their foreman wants a $2 raise........

    It might not pan out this way but who knows.

    We need employees so I'll just keep rolling with the punches :)
    Posted via Mobile Device
  8. JCResources

    JCResources LawnSite Member
    Messages: 109

    In Kansas you are not required to have work comp unless you have more than $20,000 in payroll.

    Ask your client if you have to have it or if you just need to comply with state law.
  9. AI Inc

    AI Inc LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 27,061

    Exactly. No one will work in the heat and rain for $11 if they can get $10.10 to stand a dunkins counter and play with their phone.
  10. Kelly's Landscaping

    Kelly's Landscaping LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,725

    Our mowing season is 26-30 weeks and this year its going to be 26 it just snowed this morning. Which screws up my plans as it wasn't predicted and iv been doing spring clean ups since the 23rd of march which is horrible start.

    So the real season here is 40 weeks when you add in clean ups and you can forget your 1200 hour delusion I work 2400 hours a year in that period of time. My guys usually hit 2000. Again you latch on to what we can make when everything's going well but ignore what iv told you in the past. When you average the down time and office time and estimate and billing time and repair time were bringing in less than half that figure. The dream of course would be to get to 80% efficiency or better but iv stopped dreaming of that with employees.

    TPendagast now there are differences between us I don't get enough snow to justify doing it. You certainly do so that should be added to your season. We have had some bad winters as of late but in the time iv been in business we have had some with less than 1 foot of snow total for the winter. You seem to freak out at the idea of doing the work physically your self and perhaps you aren't tough enough to do that anymore I still am.

    Personally Alaska looks fun I watch you guys gold mining and crab fishing all the time on tv. :laugh:

    You asked how 10.10 an hour minimum wage effects us are you even being serious? An experienced guy expects more than double that so that takes 17-18 an hour and pushes to 21-22 an hour.

    As an honest person I am growing tired of being questioned from the likes of you over and over demanding I give you all the details so you can crunch them and manipulate them into something they don't add up too. The chart shows averages not my taxes but averages. Just one of my trucks alone is 1000 a year in property taxes. Pay another 8000 for the house and the land. I still have 4 trailers and 3 trucks I didn't include in that figure and thats just one form of taxes. I collect about 15000 a year in sales taxes thats doesn't include what I actually pay in them thats just what I collect for the state on my services. The bottom line is it's not a mere 7k a year difference its 3-5 times that.

    So far I'm very pleased with no employees and will let you know how I make out. I am wondering why I didn't come to this conclusion sooner then I remember there's a thing called lawn site that says I am suppose to always be growing. Well I think I am big enough to generate 60-80k a year salaries for both me and my partner with out employees or doing snow. And the amount id have to do with employees to get that same income is just not worth it to me anymore.

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