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Is 4 Stroke with separate oil more forgiving than 2 stroke or 4Mix & C4 type?

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by yungman, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. yungman

    yungman LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Calif.
    Messages: 1,274

    After reading a lot of oil mix and stuff, seems like it is more forgiving to have 4 cycle with separate oil engine as long as you change oil. The reasons are given below. Please put in your 2 cents.

    1) No worry of too much or too little oil. mistake on calculation etc.
    2) Even if carb is too lean, you still get full oil lublication instead of too little oil in the mix oil gas case. Oil will take some of the extra heat in the separate oil case. In cars, too lean just result in lost of power, never freeze up the engine, might hurt the engine, not kill the engine.
    3) If air fuel is too rich, mix oil not only have too much gas, it would have too much oil so more carbon will build up and or foul plug. Where as in weparate oil case, only carbon from gas will build up, so it is less and not foul plug.
    4) seems like gas degrade faster with oil mix than pure gas even fuel stabilizer is used.

    Please reply if you disagree and give logical reason. I know I am putting myself on the bullseye!!!! So.....GIVE IT TO ME!!!!

  2. Envy Lawn Service

    Envy Lawn Service LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,087

    In a word... NO!

    No 4 stroke 21" mower has been able to survive me yet.
    So I have thought of trying it once more and running mix gas.

    This thread also reminds me that I don't think I ever answered you about the Honda trimmers. You would have to ask some owners, but I believe Honda might have overcame this with their trimmers.

    I don't know and won't know... The reason is that I was very interested in them many years ago. But I am very sensitive to vibration, so I try not to buy anything without a demo.... at least holding one running... So my Honda dealer was good enough to let me try one.

    The result was that I found them rather heavy... a bit sluggish building RPM's... and not a very smooth operator at working RPM... meaning shaft vibration.

    I said no thanks, and instead bought a Stihl FS85 (now extinct)
  3. saw man

    saw man LawnSite Bronze Member
    from utah
    Messages: 1,033


    At it again!

    Different forums same questions! Wrong forums though. I will try to help you out again though.

    As I, and others, have stated on different forums the gas will go bad if it is mixed or not! The only reason gas will stay "fresh" longer with a mix is that most oil mixes today have a gas stabilizer added to it. Still I would not suggest keeping it over 6 months. Check the bottle of oil mix you buy, some will say it will keep gas "fresh" less than the 6 months. Gas also will loose its octane level over time which is bad for your engine. The knock that occures because of low octane can/will ruin your engine, mixed fuel or not.

    You got upset on another forum and asked me not to post if I didnt like what you were saying. The thing is you are looking in the wrong places!

    If you want to learn about a trimmer then this site is pretty good, but you will still get MANY different answers! If you want to learn about oil check this site www.bobistheoilguy.com They have a forum section which has everything from lawnmower to cars to oil analysis. Start there.

    Seperate oil trimmers like the Honda will have the same type carb. as many other trimmer that are 2 cycle. You can still run too lean or to rich and have the same problems. You can over fill oil and have the engine case break. It can have a seal leak and you could ruin the engine.

    Either way you have to know your equipment and pay attention to it. If you dont you will ruin it, no matter if it is 2 cycle or 4 cycle!

    Do some research on gas and oil and decide for yourself, most people on here dont know gas and oil that well to answer your questions. I know I have seen the posts!
  4. saw man

    saw man LawnSite Bronze Member
    from utah
    Messages: 1,033

    Envy strikes again! You better stay on and help us all!!! Will go and read your post now.

    Good luck!
  5. topsites

    topsites LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 21,653

    The mowers bother me when I get to operating on some inclines.
    I seized my first engine running regular oil.
    That's why I run synthetic now, haven't seized one in 5 years.

    But you are right, there's no difference as to what is being asked here.
  6. yungman

    yungman LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Calif.
    Messages: 1,274

    Hi Saw Man
    I don't recall I got upset with you. I correspond with you a few times here and I respect what you have to say a lot. Did you use under other name? I remember someone jump on me and I never recognize the name. Sorry if I offend you. Actually I was trying to ask you question here before.

    I am not sure about what I said, I am new in this and I have been reading all different posting and come up with some conclusion. As I said, I am putting myself on the bullseye for this. I just want to learn. I guess by beating the stuff at different angles. The more people respond, the more I learn.
    I bought quite a few trimmers engine to take apart on ebay that were all freeze up. I never see a car engine that freeze up because it's too lean, that why I ask.
    I mix some new gas oil 2 days ago and I notice the bottom of the almost empty container have something looks like oil droplet suspend in water at first I thought they were dirt, But it was all gas, I was using Shindaiwa One and 91 octane gas with Stab-Bil, I used up all, only a little left, looks like the mixture already degrade just sitting at the bottom. The thing is the old mixture was made only 3 weeks ago!!!! The can was new, I rinsed with gas before I do the mix that time to make sure it's was clean. What are those droplets???!!! Is it true the gas degrade faster with oil in it?? THREE WEEKS ONLY!!!! I also saw a post somewhere saying that gas degrade faster with oil in it. I just want to hear from others.
  7. yungman

    yungman LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Calif.
    Messages: 1,274

    You mean you people are just as bad as me, jumping from forum to forum!!! Even worst, using different names!!! This make me look really bad!!!! Going around asking same question and try to get more response;)

    One thing I learn, people have different opinion, you ask 100 people, you get a lot of answers, but if you listen to their logic and think about them, you learn more. Even you ask the same people, they might say something a little different and you can learn too. I try to be smart and go on other forums to ask.....Never expect you people are one up on me!!!!

    Don't you people have a life!!!!! Or you're all like me!!!!!

  8. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,699

    You're attempting to mix apples and oranges here. The "too lean" freeze up you're seeing in 2 strokes isn't the same "too lean" you'll see in a car engine.

    Usually if a 2 stroke freezes up it's because the oil to fuel ratio was too high. There simply isn't enough oil in the mix to lubricate the parts. When that happens you get a friction problem and then everything melts together.

    Now for cars... Have you ever heard someone complain that their car just suddenly started overheating for no apparent reason? The antifreeze if filled, the t-stat is new and the radiator is fine. This is often the result of running a too lean air to fuel ratio. When there isn't enough fuel it causes the combustion temps to rise quite a bit and can result in overheating.
  9. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,699

    More than likely they're water. Today's fuel contains varying amounts of alcohol that is used as an oxygenate. Alcohol is hygroscopic is that it will absorb water right out of the air. Keep you fuel containers tightly sealed and only buy fuel from a busy gas station that sells high quality fuels.
  10. yungman

    yungman LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Calif.
    Messages: 1,274

    The container is tightly seal. My observation is : First I try to shake the bottle, the droplets did not re-dissolve back in, it was still suspending. I add a little gas in it, it disappeared right away, I don't see any separation of water and gas. I thought of ethanol attract water, that's why I add gas. What ever in it was not water, just gunk.

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